Lake of Fire question

[Laren]

From my understanding from Ray's teachings, the carnal mind of non overcomers is destroyed/purged in the LOF.

Does the carnal mind at that time exist seperate from body (dust) + spirit? 

Does body (dust) + spirit=soul (carnal mind) apply to only this physical life, but after the resurrection of the wicked, the mind can exist seperate from flesh body (dust)??

[Kat]

Hi Laren,

I found a couple of things from Ray's lake of fire series,
this might help you with your question.


Ray's lake of fire series, part 12------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------We have already proved that "the fire shall try every man's work" in I Cor. 3:13 is a spiritual match with Rev. 20:13 & 15 where "they were judged every man according to their works ... in the lake of fire" And in both cases the "fire" is God's SPIRIT. God's spirit burns spiritual character flaws out of the hearts of mankind in a similar way in which literal fire burns up and abolishes wood, straw, and stubble. And since we are the Body of Christ and we too are made "flames of fire," then we also judge the deeds of men's heart.

part 3--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In statement (1) the editor of Strong's cites seven more Scriptures that are used symbolically and figuratively to demonstrate "the holiness of God, which CONSUMES ALL that is inconsistent therewith." It doesn't consume their physical bodies, nor does it burn their physical bodies to produce pain, but it "CONSUMES" all that is not consistent with God's holiness. And these are the things of the heart, mind and spirit! It is not the "body" that needs chastisement and purification, it is the MIND, HEART, AND SPIRIT that needs purification from unholiness. You cannot burn pride and vanity out of one's heart with REAL FIRE (besides the advocates of torturing with real fire for all eternity admit that it accomplishes NOTHING). It takes the fire of God's spirit to burn away evils that have their origin in the realm of spirit.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Laren]

Thanks Kat. 

[YellowStone]

Kat,

Your answer was awesome!

Thanks for takinng the time and care to respond in the way you did.

God too, is awesome.

Darren

[lilitalienboi16]

From my understanding from Ray's teachings, the carnal mind of non overcomers is destroyed/purged in the LOF.

Does the carnal mind at that time exist seperate from body (dust) + spirit? 

Does body (dust) + spirit=soul (carnal mind) apply to only this physical life, but after the resurrection of the wicked, the mind can exist seperate from flesh body (dust)??

This tells you what happens to the carnal mind of man.

Rev 21: 1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were PASSED AWAY; and there was no more sea."

There was no more room for mans carnal mind, man's heaven and earth, for they had passed away in the Presence of God.

I hope that helps,

ALex

[Laren]

From my understanding from Ray's teachings, the carnal mind of non overcomers is destroyed/purged in the LOF.

Does the carnal mind at that time exist seperate from body (dust) + spirit? 

Does body (dust) + spirit=soul (carnal mind) apply to only this physical life, but after the resurrection of the wicked, the mind can exist seperate from flesh body (dust)??

This tells you what happens to the carnal mind of man.

Rev 21: 1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were PASSED AWAY; and there was no more sea."

There was no more room for mans carnal mind, man's heaven and earth, for they had passed away in the Presence of God.

I hope that helps,

ALex

thanks.  I believe the carnal mind will be destroyed, and for most in LOF, and I agree with your verse above. 

I've been reading through old posts, and one that I read brought up the point re: the carnal mind and it's existence beyond the physical death. 

I am trying to understand how the carnal mind exists beyond physical death, in order for it to be purged in a future age.

If we use the definition of soul (which I believe is the carnal mind), it is made of flesh (dust) and spirit.  So after physical death, flesh returns to the ground, spirit returns to God, and carnal mind ceases to exist. 

For the carnal mind to be alive again (it/we have to be resurrected), and since the LOF is not physical fire, the carnal mind must be able to survive without flesh, even though during our physical life it only was alive with flesh present? 

 

[orion77]

Hello Laren,

(Rom 8:1)  There is therefore now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to flesh, but according to Spirit.

(Rom 8:2)  For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus set me free from the law of sin and of death.

(Rom 8:3)  For the Law being powerless, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh,

(Rom 8:4)  so that the righteous demand of the Law might be fulfilled in us, those not walking according to flesh, but according to Spirit.

(Rom 8:5)  For the ones that are according to flesh mind the things of the flesh. And the ones according to Spirit mind the things of the Spirit.

(Rom 8:6)  For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace;

(Rom 8:7)  because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be.

(Rom 8:  And those being in the flesh are not able to please God.

(Rom 8:9)  But you are not in flesh, but in Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, this one is not His.


We are no longer in flesh, but in Spirit, yet we are still walking with a body and brain, but the flesh is dead.  It is a state of mind, sin, the flesh which is enmity towards God, which being condemned while under the law cannot please God.  The entire OT is full of how mankind cannot please God while under the law.  Christ came to fullfill the law, and when His Spirit is in us, we are no longer under the law, but the law of the Spirit, which is love.

The carnal mind demands its own justice and desires condemnation and punishment.  The mind of Christ desires righteous judment, mercy, forgiveness and love.  A huge gulf between the two. 

None of us can rid this carnal mind, until God begins to drag us, each in his own time, according to Gods good will and pleasure. 

Not sure if this answers your question, but hope it helps.

God bless,

Gary

[Kat]

I've just come across this in Ray's letter to James Kennedy.

This is not so much about the carnal mind,
but I thought it was relevant to this subject.

http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm

BODY

When a man dies his body (if not disintegrated) goes into a grave or tomb (Jn. 11:38) where within a few days it begins to smell and decompose (Jn. 11:39), and it returns [Heb. shub] to the dust of the ground from which it was taken (Gen. 3:17-19, Job 10:9, Psa. 9:17, etc., etc). The "person" is said to be where the "body" is and the "person" is resurrected from the place where the body is (Mat. 28:6). Only in a figurative or symbolic sense does a "body" ever go to sheol (Jonah 2:2). Jonah was not "literally" in hell [sheol], but in the fish, and besides he didn't even die. I'm sure Jonah's loss of perception inside the fish resembled his knowledge of the word "sheol."

SPIRIT

When a man dies his spirit returns to God Who gave it (Lk. 23:46, Psa. 104:24-30). The "spirit" is never said to go to hades or sheol, and the "soul" is never said to go to Heaven at death. Men and beasts have the same spirit [ruach] and they go to the same place (Ecc. 3:18-21). There is no getting around this: when God takes away a living soul's spirit, it always dies. The spirit "gives life." No one can live without "spirit," no matter how young and healthy he may be. There are no exceptions. If there are, where is the Scripture? A dead person cannot experience anything-not pleasure in Heaven or pain in a fabled hell. This is a serious thing. Rom. 14:23 says: "Now everything which is not out of faith is sin." If one doesn't have Scriptures that show people go to eternal hell fire after death, then it is a sin to teach it.

SOUL

When a man dies his soul goes to the unseen or imperceptible [Gk: hades, Heb: sheol]. We also know that when man is in this condition (dead) it is likened to "sleep" (Psa. 13:3, Dan. 12:1-2, Jn. 11:11-14). God Himself likens death to sleep,

"The Lord said unto Moses [concerning his imminent death], Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers ... " (Deut. 31:16)

This is substantiated by the fact that:

"The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything" (Ecc. 9:5,6).

Again:

" ... for there is no work, nor device [contrivance, intelligence, reason], nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in sheol." (Ecc. 9:10).

Do we think all of these Scriptures lie? According to what we just read in Ecc. 9:5,6,10, do dead people know anything? And these verses are correctly translated.

The words "soul" and "spirit" have become corrupted through theology so that they are now used interchangeably, as if they were synonymous. They are not synonymous. There may be certain similarities between soul and spirit, but similarities do not make them one and the same.

The "soul" is the seat of sensation, consciousness, and feelings, not the body or the spirit. It is the spirit that imparts life to the body and the body then becomes a living soul (Gen. 2:7).

A thorough study of the word "soul" in the Scriptures proves that it is used of consciousness, feelings, and emotions. Hence, "sensation" is a good word to define its usage.

·         souls can touch (Lev. 5:2)

·         souls have knowledge (Pr. 2:10)

·         souls have memory (Lam. 3:20)

·         souls can love, and be joyful (Psa. 35:9; 86:4)

·         souls can hunger and thirst (Deut. 14:26)

·         souls can sin (Lev. 4:2)

·         life can be given to a soul (Job 3:20)

·         souls can die (Ezek. 18:20)

·         souls can be converted (Psa. 19:7)

·         none can keep alive his (own) soul (Psa. 22:29)

·         honey is sweet to the soul (Pr. 16:24)

·         even God has a soul (Lev. 26:11, I Sam. 2:35, Jer. 32:41)

·         souls can hear (Acts 3:22-23)

·         souls can experience pleasure (Heb. 10:3)

·         souls can be purified (I Pet. 1:22)

·         and souls can receive salvation (I Pet. 1:9).

These verses show the wide range of emotions and sensations that "souls" experience, but dead souls experience nothing in the unseen or imperceptible (hades). We need to pay close attention to the meaning of words. Hades comes from the Greek a(i)des. The a is a prefix which is equivalent to our un- and the stem -id means perceive. Thus we have UN-PERCEIVE, or imperceptible: the unseen. Etymologically, your doctrine of torment in hell falls flat on its face. From the words that God chose to call this condition of the soul after death, one thing is crystal clear: There is absolutely no perception there. And the soul has everything to do with perception and sensation as clearly seen from the verses above.

So why do you teach that there is perception in death? The very meaning of the word itself (hades) is unseen or imperceptible, so how can a dead soul have perception in a condition of imperception? God Himself chose this word which teaches us that hades is UN-perceptible or IM-perceptible (NO perception).

Because of the shameful way these words are translated and interchanged in the Authorized Version, it is nearly impossible to understand their true meanings without an exhaustive concordance.

FROM KING JAMES TRANSLATION:

SPIRIT  [pneuma]is translated   LIFE in Rev. 13:5

SOUL [nephesh]is translated     HEART in Prov. 23:7, etc

HEART [leb] is translated          MIND in Prov. 21:27, I Sam. 9:20, etc.

SOUL  [nephesh] is translated   LIFE in Gen. 9:4, Lev. 17:11, etc

SOUL [nephesh] is translated    GHOST in Job 11:2

SPIRIT [pneuma] is translated   GHOST in Mark 1:8

SOUL [nephesh]is translated     BEAST in Lev. 24:18.

BEAST  [chay]  is translated      LIFE in Lev. 18:18.

SOUL [nephesh] is translated    BODY in Lev. 21:11, Hag. 2:35, etc.

This kind of translating is not responsible scholarship-it's confusing and contradictory.

The Apostle Paul admonished Timothy to "have a pattern of sound words" (II Tim. 1:13) The Scriptures quoted above clearly show the translator's disregard for this instruction.

Man is mortal (Job 4:17). Not one Scripture says that man is "immortal" or has an "immortal" soul. Not one. "Our Lord, Jesus Christ: the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; who only has immortality" (I Tim. 6:14-16).

mercy, peace,and love
Kat

[Laren]

Any thots here as to if the soul is the same thing as the carnal mind??? 

[Kat]

Hi Laren,

When we become spiritual being in the resurrection,
we will have our same minds, which have been conformed to the mind of Christ.
But we will not have the fleshly (carnal) body, but a spiritual body.

So is there a soul without the body?

Gen 2:7  And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Body and the breath/spirit of life and then you "become a living soul."

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[angie]

Hi all,

Just a few thoughts on souls...

I think that the soul [that can be resurrected] equates to 'mind'

A thorough study of the word "soul" in the Scriptures proves that it is used of consciousness, feelings, and emotions. Hence, "sensation" is a good word to define its usage.

The Mind is the place where all thoughts, emotions, memory and knowledge are originated/stored. We can't see it, touch it with hands, it doesn't show up on an x-ray, or physically separate it from the body at death. [post-mortem] It is unseen, yet it exists, we all have one.  [though I'm prone to misplacing mine from time to time ]

It lives supported by the brain.[Flesh] We CAN see and feel the brain. We can x-ray, examine it, dissect it and map different areas of it to do with the physical, measurable effects on the body [flesh] Do we know everything about it? Nope. In fact, we are lucky if we know about 20%

When the brain ceases to fuction, so does the mind. Interestingly, the brain cannot survive without oxygen and we get that from the lungs from the air [containing oxygen] that we breathe. The word pneum(o) is the Greek word stem meaning Gas/air [pertaining to the lung]. If we look at the definition of 'Spirit' it is pneum(a)

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind.

It was apparently this self same Spirit that in Mar 1:10 "...like a dove descending upon him:"...[Jesus] that drove Him into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan for 40 days [v 12 -14]

The question that sprung to my mind at this point was 'Is God in the air?' or at the very least, a component of Him [Oxygen] That thought has some merit to the carnal mind, since, Like God, it is unseen, is everywhere, lives in us [as dissolved oxygen in every tissue in the body] The brain can't live without it since, if oxygen is absent, the brain will DETERIORATE AND DIE, [this starts within 4 minutes] and along with it DIES our mind. If we are starved of oxygen, our brain lapses into unconsciousness,[and no perception] then death follows. When we are DEAD, the oxygen in our tissues is released back into the atmospheric air where it came from. [Is this sounding familiar to anybody yet?]
We NEED it to survive. Plants need it, animals need it, even fish in the sea need it. There are very few micro-organisms that exist with out it [anaerobic-without air]

Oxygen is the food of life, it feeds and nurtures the brain and every other tissue in the body. without the brain, the mind cannot exist.  Everything came out from God, including oxygen. I don't believe this is God himself, otherwise, how could we bottle it? But I believe that it is a created spirit of God, out of Him since He created it. He is the owner of it and so it quite rightly returns to 'God who gave it'

Everything living that you can see is is primarily only made because of the presence of oxygen, facilitating growth. Put another way: all things seen, are made from [and the presense of] the unseen. What I can't correlate in my mind is how air, or oxygen, of itself,  could compel Jesus into the wilderness unless there was enough of it to actually blow him off his feet and carry him there! 
It would seem that it has a literal and figurative meaning. [perhaps an angel, who is also a spirit OF God]

A living soul - nephesh

H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): ...

I think that this is just what it says. A breathing creature, flesh that uses oxygen, to nourishes and keep alive the brain, that houses the mind. When it dies, it is really dead, All of it, including the mind, since it has no means of sustenance. It cannot exist without the body. It is the invisible mind that can be manipulated, bent shaped and changed according to the experiences we have and the circumstances we find ourselves in. This in turn gives rise to emotions and perceptions and ultimately actions.

We are Told all over scripture, that we are to 'be of one mind' so that we have the mind of Jesus, who has the mind of God, and that when every last one of us is of one mind, God will be all in all.

1Co 2:16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

In this verse, when talking about the mind of Christ, 'mind' is

G3563
νοῦς
nous
nooce
Probably from the base of G1097; the intellect, that is, mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by implication meaning: - mind, understanding. Compare G5590.

NOTE. This is different from the word used to describe the mind in other verses not pertaining to the mind of Christ.

The mind also houses our memory. if we are to remember all the lessons taught in this 'afflicted' time in the flesh after resurrection, we need this element, in fact, of all the things pertaining to the flesh in this life, it's the ONLY thing we need since we are undergoing a process of sanctification in readiness NOW for 'that day'.
When we [our minds] are resurrected, the only thing we need to be given, is a spiritual body to house the now developed spiritual mind [of Christ and God].

Well, I seem to have got a bit carried away with this subject! I hope that I haven't added to the confusion
Maybe someone else will 'see' something that they can pick up on to help clarify our understanding.

Angie
x

[Laren]

Hi all,

Just a few thoughts on souls...

I think that the soul [that can be resurrected] equates to 'mind'

A thorough study of the word "soul" in the Scriptures proves that it is used of consciousness, feelings, and emotions. Hence, "sensation" is a good word to define its usage.

The Mind is the place where all thoughts, emotions, memory and knowledge are originated/stored. We can't see it, touch it with hands, it doesn't show up on an x-ray, or physically separate it from the body at death. [post-mortem] It is unseen, yet it exists, we all have one.  [though I'm prone to misplacing mine from time to time ]

It lives supported by the brain.[Flesh] We CAN see and feel the brain. We can x-ray, examine it, dissect it and map different areas of it to do with the physical, measurable effects on the body [flesh] Do we know everything about it? Nope. In fact, we are lucky if we know about 20%

When the brain ceases to fuction, so does the mind. Interestingly, the brain cannot survive without oxygen and we get that from the lungs from the air [containing oxygen] that we breathe. The word pneum(o) is the Greek word stem meaning Gas/air [pertaining to the lung]. If we look at the definition of 'Spirit' it is pneum(a)

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind.

It was apparently this self same Spirit that in Mar 1:10 "...like a dove descending upon him:"...[Jesus] that drove Him into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan for 40 days [v 12 -14]

The question that sprung to my mind at this point was 'Is God in the air?' or at the very least, a component of Him [Oxygen] That thought has some merit to the carnal mind, since, Like God, it is unseen, is everywhere, lives in us [as dissolved oxygen in every tissue in the body] The brain can't live without it since, if oxygen is absent, the brain will DETERIORATE AND DIE, [this starts within 4 minutes] and along with it DIES our mind. If we are starved of oxygen, our brain lapses into unconsciousness,[and no perception] then death follows. When we are DEAD, the oxygen in our tissues is released back into the atmospheric air where it came from. [Is this sounding familiar to anybody yet?]
We NEED it to survive. Plants need it, animals need it, even fish in the sea need it. There are very few micro-organisms that exist with out it [anaerobic-without air]

Oxygen is the food of life, it feeds and nurtures the brain and every other tissue in the body. without the brain, the mind cannot exist.  Everything came out from God, including oxygen. I don't believe this is God himself, otherwise, how could we bottle it? But I believe that it is a created spirit of God, out of Him since He created it. He is the owner of it and so it quite rightly returns to 'God who gave it'

Everything living that you can see is is primarily only made because of the presence of oxygen, facilitating growth. Put another way: all things seen, are made from [and the presense of] the unseen. What I can't correlate in my mind is how air, or oxygen, of itself,  could compel Jesus into the wilderness unless there was enough of it to actually blow him off his feet and carry him there! 
It would seem that it has a literal and figurative meaning. [perhaps an angel, who is also a spirit OF God]

A living soul - nephesh

H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): ...

I think that this is just what it says. A breathing creature, flesh that uses oxygen, to nourishes and keep alive the brain, that houses the mind. When it dies, it is really dead, All of it, including the mind, since it has no means of sustenance. It cannot exist without the body. It is the invisible mind that can be manipulated, bent shaped and changed according to the experiences we have and the circumstances we find ourselves in. This in turn gives rise to emotions and perceptions and ultimately actions.

We are Told all over scripture, that we are to 'be of one mind' so that we have the mind of Jesus, who has the mind of God, and that when every last one of us is of one mind, God will be all in all.

1Co 2:16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

In this verse, when talking about the mind of Christ, 'mind' is

G3563
νοῦς
nous
nooce
Probably from the base of G1097; the intellect, that is, mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by implication meaning: - mind, understanding. Compare G5590.

NOTE. This is different from the word used to describe the mind in other verses not pertaining to the mind of Christ.

The mind also houses our memory. if we are to remember all the lessons taught in this 'afflicted' time in the flesh after resurrection, we need this element, in fact, of all the things pertaining to the flesh in this life, it's the ONLY thing we need since we are undergoing a process of sanctification in readiness NOW for 'that day'.
When we [our minds] are resurrected, the only thing we need to be given, is a spiritual body to house the now developed spiritual mind [of Christ and God].

Well, I seem to have got a bit carried away with this subject! I hope that I haven't added to the confusion
Maybe someone else will 'see' something that they can pick up on to help clarify our understanding.

Angie
x

Thanks Angie, that was good.  Now, if one is not an overcomer in this life, wouldn't you say they never had the mind of Christ.  They had their carnal mind, which is dependent upon flesh and spirit to be alive. 

At there physical death, their mind dies, as well as the flesh.  The spirit returns to the father.  At resurrection, and judgment, the carnal mind is resurrected and purged in LOF for these people. 

My question  is, what body will the carnal mind have after resurrection for these non believers, in order to be alive again; as you pointed out, it needs flesh and spirit to be alive??

[ned]

My question is, what body will the carnal mind have after resurrection for these non believers, in order to be alive again; as you pointed out, it needs flesh and spirit to be alive??

After resurrection, when Jesus will have delivered up the kingdom to God is when ALL will be reconciled to Him and we will be one in Him.

1Cor15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"
...
1Cor15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body..."

We shall then be ALL (non-believers, called, chosen, everyone) like Him, who is in the image of His father, invisible.

Hi Laren, have I understood your question correctly, in the way I perceived it to be, are my comments relevant? 
These are my thoughts.

Love,
Marie

[angie]

Hi Laren

I agree with Marie, It will need to be raised (in?) a spiritual body, even the still yet carnally minded. They will have to go on through the [spiritual] lake of fire to be purged of this before being presented spotlessly clean[sanctified] to God. Our minds aren't really flesh when we are alive on this earth, but it is OF the flesh and in the flesh till we Die. Some of us go through the lake of fire experience now, because our minds have 'died' to the flesh and are a 'new creation' IN CHRIST [spiritually maturing so our mind is as His is was and will be] Hope that helps.

Angie
x

[Kat]

Hi Laren and Angie,

I think if we keep putting our 'minds' together on this,
we will get it figured out  

1Co 15:42  So also the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;

What I get from this verse is that all will have a spiritual body when resurrected.

Ray's article - 5, A scriptural explanation of the Lake of Fire---------------------------------

A SPIRITUAL MATCH

In Rev. 20:11 we read of "a great white throne." In Verse 12 the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books are opened, and God presents us with a double witness that "every man's work" shall be judged by "fire":

"and the dead judged... ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS," (Rev. 20:11). And they are judged in "FIRE," Vers. 14, 15 & 21:8.
 
"...they were judged every man ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS." (Rev. 20:13). And they are judged in "FIRE," Vers. 14, 15 & 21:8.
Now then, is there another Scripture that speaks of the judgment of "every man's WORK?" and every man's work judged by "FIRE?" Yes, there is, and only one other:

"EVERY MAN'S WORK shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by FIRE" (I Cor. 3:13a).
 
"...And the FIRE shall try EVERY MAN'S WORK...." (I Cor. 3:13b).
We have now located our "two witnesses." These are the only two places in the entirety of the Bible that speak of:

"EVERY MAN...,"
 
"Every man's WORK...,"
 
"Every man's work, JUDGED...MANIFESTED, DECLARED, REVEALED, AND TRIED...,"
 
"Every man's work judged...tried BY FIRE."
We have proven by SEVEN proofs that the lake of fire in Rev. 20 is not physical, material, or literal, but SPIRITUAL. We shall now prove conclusively that the fire of I Cor. 3 is likewise, not physical, material, or literal, but SPIRITUAL as well. These two sets of Scriptures will explain each other. Remember that we learned there are two groups of people to be judged: (1) The whole world in the day of judging (Acts 17:31), and (2) The house of God NOW (I Pet. 4:17 & I Cor. 11:32). Since God is no respecter of persons, He judges both groups by the same means.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This talks about our 'works' being burned up.
So I'm thinking the soul--mind--memory is what is raised with the spiritual body.
The carnal mind is the 'stubble, hay, and wood' or works that was learned while in the fleah,  
that must be burned out, during the Lake of fire.

1Co 3:12  And if anyone builds on this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,
1Co 3:13  each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is.
1Co 3:14  If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Hi Marie,
Only the few chosen, the elect, will be in the first resurrection at Christ's return. Then comes the Great White Throne judgment, when the rest of Mankind will be resurrected to judgment and be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Angie,
That oxygen is a component of God's Spirit was a good analogy

Luk 4:1  And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led in the Spirit in the wilderness

This gives me a better understanding of how Jesus was 'led' into the wilderness.

Hope this helps,
I'm learning a lot here myself.

Kat

[Laren]

It does help some, but I read on an old post from Joe H. that the resurrection in I Corinth. 15 only refers to the resurrection of overcomers, not for non overcomers.  The resurrection  I Corinth 15 says

1Co 15:42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption

1Co 15:43  It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory, it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power (same here):

1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


I appreciate Marie and Angie and Kat for your posts, and I'll for now just trust in Him to cleanse all, just not fully seeing how this happens.    

[chuckusa]

Angie,

I know this is off the subject, but it just popped into my head when I read your post.

Concerning oxygen. I read once that because of the vast trillions upon trillions of oxygen molecules that we breath in during our lifetimes, and the way that they (and all gas molecules) distribute themselves in the lower atmosphere, it is highly problematic, in fact almost certain, that we at some time in our lives, will breath in an oxygen molecule that Jesus also breathed into his lungs. Not sure if it's true, but its interesting eh?

I know... WHY do these things "pop" into your head chuck?... not sure....

Chuck

[angie]

Chuck

Well if we are to have the same mind, why not oxygen molecules too! 

Kat

I had to go to work earlier and was thinking about what you said about the no oxygen- I agreed with you, but couldn't get my mind off the parallels. I kept asking myself how oxygen/air was like the Spirit of God.

Then it hit me and I realised the answer was in the question all the time

Like in  1Pe 1:24

"...All flesh is as [like] grass" [in certain ways]"  And so:

The Spirit of God is [like] air/oxygen [in certain ways]   

E.g they both sustain life, and just as we can't exist physically without oxygen, neither can we exist spiritually without the Spirit of God. He is our sustainer, He gives us spiritual life and body. We live in Him and of Him, with Him in us, just as in the flesh, we live in air/oxygen, and have it in every single cell that makes up our body.

I keep being reminded of the principal:

First the physical, THEN the spiritual. Everything spiritual is foreshadowed by something [like it] in the physical. Is this making the same sense to you as it is to me or have I lost the plot completely? 

It just kinda felt like a revelation when that 'flesh is grass' bit popped into my head, given that I haven't even read that book of the bible yet but vaguely remembered Ray saying something about it in one of his papers on BT. 

Jesus was flesh outwardly, but spiritual inwardly, which is why the real Spirit of God [and not a 'puff of air'] could lead him into the wilderness.

Well, I gave it my best shot! 

Angie
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[Kat]

Angie,

yes I 'see' what your saying 
I was thinking about it too.

Oxygen is a good way to look at the Spirit,
being in all living things.
I think that through the things in nature (like the shadow),
it can help us understand the things of the spirit.

We've been going back and forth on this subject,
but this is a good thing.

Pro 27:17  Just as iron sharpens iron, friends sharpen the minds of each other.

mercy, peace,and love
Kat

[angie]

Kat

Pro 27:17  Just as iron sharpens iron, friends sharpen the minds of each other.

I couldn't agree more. 

Angie
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