I can prove good existed without evil

[kennymac]

Hello all,

It's me again.

If anyone can present scripture which will disprove this statement I would appreciate you bringing it to my attention. I want the God of the bible not the God of my imagination.1

In Genesis Chapter 1 We are give an account of God  creating.

Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness

In Genesis chapter 1 verses 4 - 10-12-18-21 and 25 God says he saw what he has made and it is good. 5 times God tells us and it is Good.

26And God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
   

Now God Tells us this: Gen 1:31 - And God saw every thing that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God just told us 5 times what he made was good. He tells us one time he saw all that he made and it was very good.

Do we believe what we just read??  So Adam and Eve exited in the garden and God said it was good and very good.

Is this not  scriptural proof that Adam and Eve knew what good is.Anyone who can send me scripture that proves they did not know what good was please send it to me.

Now we read this.

Genesis 2:16 the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat;
Genisis 2:17but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die 18And the LORD God
Genesis 2:18 said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper meet for him."
Genesis 2:22And the rib which the LORD God had taken from man, made He a woman and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 2:23And Adam said, "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."
 
Now we see the Serpent is there with them but at this point Adam and Eve only knew things were good and very good because God has said so.
 
Genesis 3: 1Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, "Yea, hath God said, `Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden'
 
22And the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become as one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live for ever"--
 
KNOWING THAt ADAM AND EVE ALREADY HAD A KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD WHEN THEY ATE THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT THEY NOW HAD KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.
 
ADAM AND EVE ONLY HAD AN EXPERIENCE OF GOOD IT WAS NOT UNTIL THE ATE FROM THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL THAT THEY EXPERIENCED OR HAD A KNOWLEDGE OF EVIL.GOOD DID EXIST WITHOUT EVIL AND IN REVELATION21:4 WE ARE TOLD
 
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away

THERE WILL COME A TIME WERE WE WILL EXIST EXPERIENCING ONLY GOOD.
THERE WILL COME A TIME WHEN ONLY GOOD EXISTS.PRIOR TO THE FALL MAN DID NOT KNOW EVIL. EVIL IS AN OUTCOME OF CARNAL MAN AND YES GOD ALWAYS KNEW THIS AND GOD DID HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF IT AND GOD WILL USE EVIL FOR OUR GOOD.
 
I believe these 3 points. 1.Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind.  2. God created evil, the waster Satan was created to destroy the flesh of man so that the spirit may be saved. 3. We do not have free will.
 
 
   If any can prove through the scriptures that these statements do not line up with the word of God please let me know. I once again want the God of the bible and not the God of my imagination.

Thanks for your help.

Mary Ann

 
 

[Craig]

Do we believe what we just read??  So Adam and Eve exited in the garden and God said it was good and very good.

Is this not  scriptural proof that Adam and Eve knew what good is.Anyone who can send me scripture that proves they did not know what good was please send it to me.

Now we read this.

Genesis 2:16 the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat;
Genisis 2:17but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die 18And the LORD God
Genesis 2:18 said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper meet for him."
Genesis 2:22And the rib which the LORD God had taken from man, made He a woman and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 2:23And Adam said, "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."
 
Now we see the Serpent is there with them but at this point Adam and Eve only knew things were good and very good because God has said so.
 

I don't have time now to chase down scriptures, but why are you attributing what God knows to what Adam and Eve knows?  God knows the difference between good and evil, but at this time how would Adam and Eve have known??

Craig

[hillsbororiver]

MaryAnn,

Like Craig said just because God knew it was good does not mean Adam and Eve did, I believe God knows a whole lot more than I do.

God saw His creation was good even as the serpent was in the Garden, he saw the entire picture, the creating of His Sons and Daughters, the "creating" is still ongoing as we grow in His Spirit. We will not be a completed creation until the resurrection, when mortality puts on immortality, until we have an incorruptable body like the Lord's (Firstfruit) incorruptable body.

Gen 2:17  But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

If Adam and Eve already knew and understood good then why isn't the tree called "the tree of the knowledge of evil?" Why is it constantly referred to as "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Please don't skip over this question.

Gen 3:22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.

Again, if Adam already "knew" good why is the Lord saying "the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil" why did he not say, "in addition to the good man knows, now he knows evil as well." or "now the man knows evil" if it is possible to know good without a knowledge of evil than why is the Lord so redundant with the name of this tree?

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

MaryAnn, I had posted this in another thread but I hope you can see how it applies to your premise,


This is an interesting topic (one of many) from Lake Of Fire Part VI;

EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE

Everything in the universe is a contrast with or to something else in the universe. Nothing can be known about anything without contrasting it with other things. You cannot think a thought nor can you perform a deed without a working knowledge of these contrasting factors. If I should say that a box is big, you could not have any conception of what I am saying unless you also know what it is for something to be small. Something is only smooth in contrast to it being rough. Up is only up in relation to down. Without the contrasting relationship between two opposites "up" could just as easily be "down." And all big boxes might be perceived as small were it not for the fact that there would be no concept of small without a knowledge of big.

Therefore, in the physical universe, all things are what they are by contrast and relativity. Very hot stars are only very hot relative to cooler stars. If there were no knowledge of cooler stars, there could also be no hot stars. Things are either hard or soft, or harder or softer (but harder or softer than WHAT?—always, something else). Things are light or dark (or somewhere in between, (but the in between can also only be known by gradations of relativity as well). Things are heavy or light, sharp or dull, big or small, tall or short, strong or weak, hot or cold, left or right, north or south, in or out, new or old, beginning or end, fast or slow, fat or skinny, straight or crooked, up or down, high or low, moving or still, positive or negative, visible or invisible, etc. You get the idea. Now then, this same law of knowledge pertains to inanimate things and things of a spiritual nature as well. Again it is only by understanding one thing relative to another or one thing contrasted with another that enables us to intelligently communicate and live our lives. Let's look at a few of these: happy or sad, giving or stingy, build or destroy, kind or cruel, energetic or lazy, haughty or humble, intelligent or stupid, wise or foolish, right or wrong, true or false, good or evil, righteous or wicked, love or hate, life or death, temporary or eternal.

Having a working knowledge of these relative and contrasting terms and concepts is absolutely essential in living our lives. We must all come to know and to experience both good and evil. The universal teaching that God "never intended" for man to eat of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is as false and unscriptural as anything could ever be. It was both essential and paramount that man should eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Knowledge of both good and evil is an attribute of God Himself. If we are to be the "sons of God," we too must partake of this quality of God's nature. How could man ever be fully made into the very image of His Creator God if he did not possess even the basic fundamental attributes of his Creator and Father?

Let me make one thing clear at this point, lest my detractors think they have discovered a major flaw in my teaching. "Evil" is not good nor is it eternal. Nonetheless, a "knowledge of evil" is good and is eternal. All evil will take its place in the lake of fire, but a knowledge of evil is eternal just as sure our God, Who possesses a knowledge of evil, is eternal.

And so man's life consists of a combination of both good and evil thoughts, words, and deeds. The most saintly of men have had their flaws and the most evil of men have possessed at least a few qualities of good. I am sure that even Adolph Hitler loved his mother and was kind to his dog. But loving your mother and being kind to your dog will not get you into the kingdom of God. And let me be quick to add that hating your mother and being cruel to your dog will not eternally keep you out of the kingdom of God either.

Oh that the church could have the faith to believe that God Almighty is able to accomplish His will for humanity:

"For this is GOOD [not evil] and acceptable [but NOTHING SHORT OF THIS IS ACCEPTABLE] in the sight of God our Saviour; Who WILL have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come to the knowledge [both the good knowledge and the evil knowledge] of THE TRUTH" (I Tim. 2:3-4).

"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation [so here is another statement that is 'worthy' and 'acceptable' in the sight of God]. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God Who is the Saviour of ALL MEN [and nothing short of 'all men' IS worthy or acceptable to God], specially [specially does not mean 'exclusively'] of those that believe" (I Tim. 4:10).

The entire article can be found here;

http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html

Joe

[kennymac]

Do we believe what we just read??  So Adam and Eve exited in the garden and God said it was good and very good.

Maybe it would have been more apropriate  if I had said. Adam an Eve existed in the gareden with all the things God said were good and very good.

Why do we not want to believe they new Good. Ray said Adam loved Eve so much he died for her. Is love not good? can you truly believe that they new not good.

I guess I would prefer to explain the God of the bible like this. God created Adam and Eve he placed them in the garden. God told Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil or He would surely die. Satan was in the garden however God had given all dominion to Adam.

NOW THIS IS SPECULATION : If Adam and Eve did not eat the fruit perhaps God had a different path laid out which would have accomplished what was necassary as Ray would say to burn away the sin in man kind that did not include evil. I see free will like this God has laid before us paths each path we choose will accomplish his will, some paths will be smoother with less fire, others will be bumpy with lots of fire, but all paths will bring us to exactly where God has declared.

Back to what scriptures tell us. Once they ate of the tree, God said they have become as Gods knowing BOTH good and evil. It is pretty clear that they did know good because they were living it. Now that they ate the fuit in addition to knowing good  they  know both good and evil. And since that day, mankind has an experience of evil that before they ate of the tree we did not have. So It could be said because of the choice that was laid out within Gods will Adam and Eve opened the door to Evil that at one time was closed.

I think this God fits perfectly with the scriptures and also with these 3 points. 1. God created evil  2. We do not have free will 3. Satan was from the begining.

What is wrong with this , maybe a little different in some area's from what you believe, but it leaves room for an even kinder loving God and I think it fits.

Again I do not want a God of my imagination I want the God of the bible and I do not see where you can say this could not be possible ...  I am not trying to be difficult, I am the babe in Christ and if you can not show me why I am wrong with the scriptures then I will have to accept the truth. And if you can not just tell me it could have happened that way.

Thanks,

Mary ann