Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hillsbororiver]

This is an interesting topic (one of many) from Lake Of Fire Part VI;

EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE

Everything in the universe is a contrast with or to something else in the universe. Nothing can be known about anything without contrasting it with other things. You cannot think a thought nor can you perform a deed without a working knowledge of these contrasting factors. If I should say that a box is big, you could not have any conception of what I am saying unless you also know what it is for something to be small. Something is only smooth in contrast to it being rough. Up is only up in relation to down. Without the contrasting relationship between two opposites "up" could just as easily be "down." And all big boxes might be perceived as small were it not for the fact that there would be no concept of small without a knowledge of big.

Therefore, in the physical universe, all things are what they are by contrast and relativity. Very hot stars are only very hot relative to cooler stars. If there were no knowledge of cooler stars, there could also be no hot stars. Things are either hard or soft, or harder or softer (but harder or softer than WHAT?—always, something else). Things are light or dark (or somewhere in between, (but the in between can also only be known by gradations of relativity as well). Things are heavy or light, sharp or dull, big or small, tall or short, strong or weak, hot or cold, left or right, north or south, in or out, new or old, beginning or end, fast or slow, fat or skinny, straight or crooked, up or down, high or low, moving or still, positive or negative, visible or invisible, etc. You get the idea. Now then, this same law of knowledge pertains to inanimate things and things of a spiritual nature as well. Again it is only by understanding one thing relative to another or one thing contrasted with another that enables us to intelligently communicate and live our lives. Let’s look at a few of these: happy or sad, giving or stingy, build or destroy, kind or cruel, energetic or lazy, haughty or humble, intelligent or stupid, wise or foolish, right or wrong, true or false, good or evil, righteous or wicked, love or hate, life or death, temporary or eternal.

Having a working knowledge of these relative and contrasting terms and concepts is absolutely essential in living our lives. We must all come to know and to experience both good and evil. The universal teaching that God "never intended" for man to eat of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is as false and unscriptural as anything could ever be. It was both essential and paramount that man should eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Knowledge of both good and evil is an attribute of God Himself. If we are to be the "sons of God," we too must partake of this quality of God’s nature. How could man ever be fully made into the very image of His Creator God if he did not possess even the basic fundamental attributes of his Creator and Father?

Let me make one thing clear at this point, lest my detractors think they have discovered a major flaw in my teaching. "Evil" is not good nor is it eternal. Nonetheless, a "knowledge of evil" is good and is eternal. All evil will take its place in the lake of fire, but a knowledge of evil is eternal just as sure our God, Who possesses a knowledge of evil, is eternal.

And so man’s life consists of a combination of both good and evil thoughts, words, and deeds. The most saintly of men have had their flaws and the most evil of men have possessed at least a few qualities of good. I am sure that even Adolph Hitler loved his mother and was kind to his dog. But loving your mother and being kind to your dog will not get you into the kingdom of God. And let me be quick to add that hating your mother and being cruel to your dog will not eternally keep you out of the kingdom of God either.

Oh that the church could have the faith to believe that God Almighty is able to accomplish His will for humanity:

"For this is GOOD [not evil] and acceptable [but NOTHING SHORT OF THIS IS ACCEPTABLE] in the sight of God our Saviour; Who WILL have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come to the knowledge [both the good knowledge and the evil knowledge] of THE TRUTH" (I Tim. 2:3-4).

"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation [so here is another statement that is ‘worthy’ and ‘acceptable’ in the sight of God]. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God Who is the Saviour of ALL MEN [and nothing short of ‘all men’ IS worthy or acceptable to God], specially [specially does not mean ‘exclusively’] of those that believe" (I Tim. 4:10).

The entire article can be found here;

http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html

Joe

[Origen II]

This was perhaps the strongest motivator to me accepting Universal Salvation. I always held this theory, but never applied it to my studies. It finally fit within this Theology and this Theology only.

[YellowStone]

Joe, this is a wonderful topic. When I was a child I went to a Lutheran primary school and on Sundays to a Presbyterian Sunday school. Oh, I was taught in both places that there was only one God, but each was diferent! Duh?

How can this be? Reminds me of an old Dire Straits song, where one song goes: "Two men say they're Jesus!...one of them MUST be wrong"

Now isn't that the truth. One version of the truth maybe relative to another version, but to your point; the truth cannot be relative to itself, but to an untruth or lie. The dilemma became exceedingly apparent when neither of these truths aligned with the truth I learned from the scripture or felt in my heart. Heck, was my truth relative to a lie or the truth? 

The simple fact of the matter is that my truth is nothing more than God given. Would God give me a lie? Has he given anyone a lie? Of course he has or at least allowed untruths to manifest through Satan. So what must I (we) do? We must trust that our Father has given us all we need and that he will never forsake us.

Pro 30:5
Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

And what else should we do in regard to all of this relative maddness

We should:

Pro 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

If is not the Truth then it is a lie

Thanks Joe

[SandyFla]

Great post, Joe! 

It always confused me when preachers would say Adam & Eve didn't know evil until they ate of the tree; they only knew good. I always read that the knowledge of BOTH good and evil were in the tree. That never made sense to me. How could they know good without know evil?    It's one of those things that's right in front of their eyes, and they can't see it.

Sandy

[hillsbororiver]

Thank you Darren & Sandy,

I love the way this article puts things in perspective it is amazing how the churches are blind to scripture but are so often blind to logic or common sense.

His Peace and Wisdom to all,

Joe

[Beloved]

This might seem silly but when I saw the topic and read it, Einstein’s equation  E=Mc2 kept popping into my mind..

Isn’t it funny that natural man’s mind is so concerned with " matter" and "energy" of the physical world that they do not reflect much on the constancy of the light. 

We know that God is Light (spiritual) and that He never changes (constancy). They haven’t a clue that this whole physical universe is held together by God. 

I like the wording of the CLV

(Col 1:16 CLV) 
for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him,

(Col 1:17 CLV)
 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him

The more man looks into the universe the bigger and bigger it gets, the more you look into the microscopic the smaller and small things get. 

Spiritually as we learn to die to self and the carnal life, we begin to see only this One Constancy and Center…. we now only look at Christ who reveals the Father.

All of these dualities .....Good and Evil … Light and dark….  etc are all needed in this carnal / physical existence in order to help prepare us for a spiritual existence.  Those who will be His sons will certainly

(Pro 3:5 KJVR) 
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Beloved

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Beloved,

I don't think it is silly at all. There is so much truth in your post, did you know Einstein's Theory might  actually help us to understand the time/space/generational questions in the creation story? It has alot to do with how fast the universe was expanding at "the beginning."

His Peace and Wisdom to you Sister,

Joe

[CEO]

God is absolute.  Everything else is 'relative'.

[chuckusa]

Joe,

This a little off the subject but I wanted to say how much my study of physics did for my faith. When you see the incredible endless complexity of the universe, and the vast unexplored regions of creation...it made me realize even more so, that God is in control. Some may argue that this type of study would do the opposite, that you would end up being fascinated with creation itself, rather than the creator. For me it expanded my understanding of God, it allowed me a glimpse of his incredible works and strengthened my faith. How could I ever doubt again.

On a lighter side.

Stephen Hawkins was doing a lecture in Japan on the expansion of matter, and its relation to time. One theory held, is that at some point, the expansion will stop, and reverse. The Japanese government learned of his plans to speak about this and asked him not to mention the "reverse" theory for fear that it would affect the stock market and would keep people from investing.

Never mind that it couldn't happen for at least 20 billion years. Hows that for long term investment jitters?

Oh the folly... of man and his money.

Great thread Joe,
Chuck

[mongoose]

Awesome Chuck.  People not investing because of the reversal of the expansion of the universe?  That is pretty funny.  I stuggle with Stephen Hawking's writings (not too good at physics.. ) but I loved "A Brief History of Time".  It seemed to me at times like he was almost describing God.  It really shook me up when I first read it but now when I think about it, it only makes me grin!  Thanks for reminding me of that...I needed it today.

mongoose

[gmik]

Rays audio #2 (I think) talks about Adam & Eve. Like some people think after Adam was created then it was just a couple hours till he created Eve. Ray is funny here too.  Gotta drive somewhere so I can finish it but I wish I could have been there to here it in person.  I have a whole different idea of Ray listening to him.  He has a good sense of humor.

Sorry I got off track.

gena

[Patrick]

Chuck, I too had the same experience with Physics, Chemistry and Geology (Petroleum Engineering). The only way it made any sense was it had to be God controlling everything.
As stated, most become fascinated with creation itself (time), rather than the Creator.