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Christ volunteered to go to the cross!
Kat:
This was taken off the notes Ray handed out at the conference.
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Jesus did not die in "our place and stead."
Jesus was not a "substitutionary sacrifice."
Jesus did not "have" to die on the cross at all.
John 3:16--"For God thus loved the world, that He gave His only Begotten Son...." He didn't need to. Then why DID HE? TO SHOW HIS LOVE!
Did the Father "make" His Son Jesus die? Did He "take" His Son's life? NO! John 10:17-18---Jesus VOLUNTEERED HIS LIFE for us!!! While we were yet sinners (Rom. 5:08).
Christ died for His Own Created Creatures to show them HOW MUCH HE LOVES US! Jesus didn't have to die---He WANTED to die, because there was no greater way to show His absolute love.
What the law couldn't do and we couldn't do, CHRIST DID (Rom 8:3). We must experience sin before we can be saved from it! How did Elohim come to a knowledge of "good and evil?" WE aren't told.
Jesus Christ IS the gospel:
"Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that He was buried, and He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures" (1Cor. 15:1-3). We have yet much to learn!
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Christ volunteered to go to the cross.
Joh 10:17 For this reason my Father loves me, because I am laying down my life in order to receive it back again.
Joh 10:18 No one is taking it away from me, but I myself am laying it down. I am authorized to lay it down, and I am authorized to receive it back again. This is the command I received from my Father."
We will never be able to say, that He does not know what it's like to go through something we have experienced. Because He experienced it all.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted just as we are, yet without sin.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
buddyjc:
Yes, no man took the life of Christ, but does this take the Father out of the equation?
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
The Father is sovereign in ALL things, and even in the death of His Son. How can we say that the Father did not do it, or that Christ did not 'have' to go to the cross. Could Christ have said, "Nope, not today?' While in the Garden of Gethsemane, Christ did ask that the cup pass from Him, and what was it Jesus said? 'Not my will, but thine be done.' Yes! Jesus Christ 'Had' to go to the cross, because he came to do the Father's will, and the Father's will was to 'crush' him for the sins of the world.
Just my two-cents.
Brian
buddyjc:
I guess I have a little difficulty with the statement that Christ did not 'have' to die on the cross at all. This act was foreordained since the world began. It has always been in God's plan for it to happen, so can we really say that Christ did not 'have' to die on the cross?
Brian
Kat:
Hi Brian,
Most people believe that Jesus had to die on the cross.
But grace has saved us through faith.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
The cross was the plan from the beginning, not because it was the way it had to be.
The reason Christ, who always does the will of The Father,
went to the cross, was He (Christ) created man and gave him an experience of evil,
because it is necessary for man to know both good and evil.
Christ went to the cross to suffer,
so we will never be able to say He doesn't know what we are suffering.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted just as we are, yet without sin.
Act 17:3 He explained and showed them that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. He said, "This very Jesus whom I proclaim to you is the Christ."
1Pe 2:21 For hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Jesus and the Father are perfectly of the same mind in this, and all things.
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one."
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
TRUTHSEEKER:
I have to agree with buddyjc on this one. I wasn't at the conference. I would have loved to have been there. The qote that is said to have been taken from the conference of Jesus did not have to die on the cross is simply not scriptural. Jesus was in the Garden battling with his flesh and with God to have this cup of carrying the sins of the world on his shoulders to the cross. If he didn't have to do it then, why did he go through with it? He need not to have prayed three times and had sweat drip from his body as great drops of blood if he could have just walked aways from it all. He had to do it. The prophets of old foretold of it, mainly Isaiah. How could Jesus just walk away from the very thing that his Father commissioned him to do?
"But the cross was the plan from the beginning, not because it was the way it had to be."
Question: if the cross was the plan from the beginning, how could it not have had to be the way that it was if that was the plan from the beginning?
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