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Christ volunteered to go to the cross!
Kat:
Hi TRUTHSEEKER,
Christ did die for our sins. I'm not disputeing this scripture.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received,
that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures,
If He had not been the sin offering we would remain dead in the grave.
Rom 6:23 For the wages paid by Sin are death;
but God's free gift is the Life of the Ages bestowed upon us in Christ Jesus our Lord.
When Jesus was in the garden,
He was certainly thinking of the events about to come upon Him.
He knew what He was going to suffer, He was a man,
but even in this whole ordeal He was our example.
It was those sufferings which are 'behind of the afflictions of Christ' (Col. 1:24),
that are being filled up in God's elect now.
Also He was going to die and be dead.
Was it not possible for Christ to be distressed about what was about to happen to Him.
Mat 26:38 Then He said to them, My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Wait here and watch with Me.
Joh 17:5 And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
It was the Father's will for Christ to die on the cross, and Christ was in total agreement.
Even in the garden He prayed for the Father's will to be done.
But He was not forced to go, the Father did not make Him, He wanted to.
It was His way of showing His absolute love for us.
I hope this helps.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
shoani:
i have to agree with Brian. the Volunteer part is confusing. i blive he did not volunteer but rather obedient to HIS father's command. He new he had to do it and like anybody else, prayed about it several times wishing for it to go away"may this cup pass from me" but He knew exactly that He came on earth to do His Father's will and dieing on the cross was part of the package(covenant). He had to go through it for the end-results of it. the end justified the means and as much as He wished it to happen otherwise, Cross was the way chosen by His murderers.
the explanation is good but the Volunteering part need to be revised.
much luv
shoani
MG:
The comparison was with Adam and Eve. Adam was not deceived and ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil knowing he would die. He did this because he loved Eve. He gave himself for Eve. Christ gave himself for us.
If Christ had not given himself for me then I would be lost forever. How can he say he loves me and not volunteer to give his life to save me?
The Father gave his Son because he loves us. The Son gave his life because he loves us and loves the Father. We are giving our lives because we love the Father and the Son and then we give our lives for each other.
There have been many men who have given their lives for others and not sweat blood doing it. Was it Christ's will that hour to save himself and let all of us perish? That doesn't seem to fit his character. Hebrews 12 says he was resisiting sin. He had so sin within him so what sin was he resisting? It doesn't say he was being tempted.
John 15:
12 This is my commandment, that ye love one another, even as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Luke 22
41 And he was parted from them about a stone's cast; and he kneeled down and prayed,
42 saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Luke 22:44
And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became as it were great drops of blood falling down upon the ground.
Hebrews 12
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin
Matthew 26
52 Then saith Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Or thinkest thou that I cannot beseech my Father, and he shall even now send me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 How then should the scriptures be fulfilled that thus it must be?
John 18
10 Simon Peter therefore having a sword drew it, and struck the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. Now the servant's name was Malchus.
11 Jesus therefore said unto Peter, Put up the sword into the sheath: the cup which the Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
Kat:
Joh 10:17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down from Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. I have received this commandment from My Father.
These concepts are not easy to explain,
and sometimes I'm not able to get my point across clearly.
These commentaries might be helpful,
there is a lot in these that is very useful to me.
This was in Vincent's Word Studies-----------------------
Taketh away (αἴρει)
Some texts read ἤρεν, took away.
According to this reading the word would point back to the work of Jesus
as conceived and accomplished in the eternal counsel of God,
where His sacrifice of Himself was not exacted,
but was His own spontaneous offering in harmony with the Father's will.
I lay it down of myself
Wyc., I put it from myself.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Robertson's Word Pictures
No one taketh it away from me (oudeis airei autēn ap' emou).
But Aleph B read ēren (first aorist active indicative of airō, to take away),
probably correct (Westcott and Hort).
“John is representing Jesus as speaking sub specie aeternitatis” (Bernard).
He speaks of his death as already past and the resurrection as already accomplished.
Cf. Joh_3:16.
Of myself (ap' emautou). The voluntariness of the death of Jesus repeated and sharpened.
D omits it, probably because of superficial and apparent conflict with Joh_5:19.
But there is no inconsistency as is shown by Joh_3:16; Rom_5:8.
The Father “gave” the Son who was glad to be given and to give himself.
I have power to lay it down (exousian echō theinai autēn).
Exousia is not an easy word to translate (right, authority, power, privilege).
See Joh_1:12. Restatement of the voluntariness of his death for the sheep.
And I have power to take it again (kai exousian echō palin labein autēn).
Note second aorist active infinitive in both cases
(theinai from tithēmi and labein from lambanō), single acts.
Recall Joh_2:19 where Jesus said: “And in three days I will raise it up.”
He did not mean that he will raise himself from the dead independently
of the Father as the active agent (Rom_8:11).
I received from my Father (elabon para tou patros mou).
Second aorist active indicative of lambanō.
He always follows the Father’s command (entolē) in all things (Joh_12:49.; Joh_14:31).
So now he is doing the Father’s will about his death and resurrection.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a much better explanation than I could give.
Hope this helps.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Brett:
--- Quote ---This was in Vincent's Word Studies-----------------------
Taketh away (αἴρει)
Some texts read ἤρεν, took away.
According to this reading the word would point back to the work of Jesus
as conceived and accomplished in the eternal counsel of God,
where His sacrifice of Himself was not exacted,
but was His own spontaneous offering in harmony with the Father's will.
I lay it down of myself
Wyc., I put it from myself.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Robertson's Word Pictures
No one taketh it away from me (oudeis airei autēn ap' emou).
But Aleph B read ēren (first aorist active indicative of airō, to take away),
probably correct (Westcott and Hort).
“John is representing Jesus as speaking sub specie aeternitatis” (Bernard).
He speaks of his death as already past and the resurrection as already accomplished.
Cf. Joh_3:16.
Of myself (ap' emautou). The voluntariness of the death of Jesus repeated and sharpened.
D omits it, probably because of superficial and apparent conflict with Joh_5:19.
But there is no inconsistency as is shown by Joh_3:16; Rom_5:8.
The Father “gave” the Son who was glad to be given and to give himself.
I have power to lay it down (exousian echō theinai autēn).
Exousia is not an easy word to translate (right, authority, power, privilege).
See Joh_1:12. Restatement of the voluntariness of his death for the sheep.
And I have power to take it again (kai exousian echō palin labein autēn).
Note second aorist active infinitive in both cases
(theinai from tithēmi and labein from lambanō), single acts.
Recall Joh_2:19 where Jesus said: “And in three days I will raise it up.”
He did not mean that he will raise himself from the dead independently
of the Father as the active agent (Rom_8:11).
I received from my Father (elabon para tou patros mou).
Second aorist active indicative of lambanō.
He always follows the Father’s command (entolē) in all things (Joh_12:49.; Joh_14:31).
So now he is doing the Father’s will about his death and resurrection.
--- End quote ---
Hi Kat,
Sometimes, Vincent and Robertson are hard understand of their comment because they are high educational. I misunderstood them sometimes. You know I am deaf. No need sympathy. I want to make sure I understand right about their comments of Jesus' volunteer, did they say like it is absolutely of Jesus' volunteer?
Let me know. Thanks.
Brett
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