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Author Topic: What is Sin? And who originated this post?  (Read 11337 times)

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YellowStone

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What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« on: September 15, 2006, 03:27:47 PM »

What is Sin? And who originated this post?

Of course the answer to both can only be GOD!

Rev 1:8
  • I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. 

But from whence does sin come?

Isa 45:7
  • I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (sin): I the LORD do all these [things].

God clearly states that he is the creator of evil, which fathers' hate. But are we not instructed that God is love.

1Jo 4:8
  • He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Certainly without question, God is before all things and it is he that created both evil (sin) and love. The question is now, do we love God out of choice, and in the same manner do we choose to sin?

The scriptures answer this plainly:

Jer 10:23
  • O LORD, I know that the way of man [is] not in himself: [it is] not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

1Th 3:11
  • Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.

Does this mean that God has predetermined all of our steps, actions and thoughts? Yes.

Romans 9:20-21
  • Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?


Rom 8:20
  • For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,


Rom 8:27
  • And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.


Rom 8:28 
  • And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.


This is a very important verse and should not be over looked:.....to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

Yes, it is God who selects us, not us him.....

2Cr 5:18 
  • And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;


Rom 8:29 
  • For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


1Cr 15:3
  • For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

God forenew that Christ would have to die for "OUR" sins. Now what is this....All things are of God (including sin) and it not up to us to even direct our step, how then can the sin be OURS? Did we do something without God knowing about it? Of course not! :)

So then, back to the orignal question of this post. What is Sin?

Unless, I am grossly mistaken, sin is nothing more than we, the people following God's plan. (will/purpose) Or in other words a foreordained event.

2Cr 5:21
  • For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

So then, is sin wrong? How can it be, unless God is wrong; so then, likewise, evil atrocities like 911 orchestrated by Satan, are not wrong in the sense that God directed the terrorist steps.

So, if we see such acts as being evil, by whom are we seeing? By God, for it is his love for us according to his purpose for each of us to see the difference between good and evil, love and hate.

But are we any better than such evil doers? The answer can only be a resounding NO!! Because we are nothing without God; each one of us is doing God's will....the ones that try to live by God and those that profess to be satanists. Each one is living according to the purpose of God.

My final statement is: Any thought of anger, distrust, hate towards another is nothing other than hate towards God and his plan.

My final question is: Who originated the thought? You or God.

I have been wrestling with these thoughts for a while now. Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

Darren

« Last Edit: September 15, 2006, 03:34:36 PM by YellowStone »
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Layla

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2006, 05:32:30 PM »

WOW...No offense, but I totally disagree with your reasoning.
What scriptures cause you to conclude that evil is sin?

Peace,
Layla
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Kat

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2006, 06:10:11 PM »


Hi Yellowstone,

Let's consider some of the points you made.

Quote
2Cr 5:21
For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

So then, is sin wrong? How can it be, unless God is wrong; so then, likewise, evil atrocities like 911 orchestrated by Satan, are not wrong in the sense that God directed the terrorist steps.

So, if we see such acts as being evil, by whom are we seeing? By God, for it is his love for us according to his purpose for each of us to see the difference between good and evil, love and hate.

But are we any better than such evil doers? The answer can only be a resounding NO!! Because we are nothing without God; each one of us is doing God's will....the ones that try to live by God and those that profess to be satanists. Each one is living according to the purpose of God.

In this verse Christ was not made to be sin,
but a sin offering, (there was a topic 'He was made sin' a while back, that went into this fully.

Is sin wrong?  Let's look at these scripture.

1Jo 3:8  The person who practices sin belongs to the evil one, because the devil has been sinning since the beginning. The reason that the Son of God was revealed was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9  No one who has been born from God practices sin, because God's seed abides in him. Indeed, he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born from God.

It was God who intended, from the beginning that Satan and man sin.  
That does not make God a sinner.  For sin is a "mistake", a "missing of the mark",
a "falling short of the glory of God" (Thayer definition).  
Man (and Satan) is accountable for his sins, because we sinned willingly from the heart,
but God takes responsibility for their sin,
and therefore had already provided them a Saviour before the foundation of the world,
1Peter 1:19-20, Rev. 13:8.
God will save everyone by bring them to repentance, and purging them,
and turning their hearts to God, through the purging of His Spiritual fire. 
There are 2 applications of God's purging fire.
The first is on the House of God, consisting of those whom God is calling to be overcomers
and sons of God, in the kingdom, at Christ's return to earth, (1Peter 4:17).
The second will be at the second resurrection and white throne judgment,
in the lake of God's divine purging fire. (Rev. 21:08).

Are we better than anybody else?
I don't think so, this is who God is choosing now.

1Co 1:26  For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.
1Co 1:27  But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong;
1Co 1:28  God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
1Co 1:29  so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

This is just what I have come to believe about these things.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 12:35:11 AM by Kat »
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YellowStone

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2006, 06:25:40 PM »

Quote from Layla:

WOW...No offense, but I totally disagree with your reasoning.
What scriptures cause you to conclude that evil is sin?



Layla, unless my powers of deduction are flawed; we are sinners and sin is evil. I think the following words of Jesus indicate this very well.

Mark 7:20-22
  • And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.  For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,  


Mark 7:20-22
  • All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.



Mat 7:18-20
  • A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


How shall we know them? By their (evil) fruits, which are of course their actions and words. What actiions? sinnful actions producing evil.

Even Paul faught with the evil inside of him:

Rom 7:19
  • For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:21
  • I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Rom 9:11
  • (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Rom 12:9
  • [Let] love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Rom 12:17
  • Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

Rom 12:21
  • Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Rom 13:3
  • For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Rom 13:4
  • For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.


I hope this helps.

With Love,

Darren
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YellowStone

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2006, 06:56:06 PM »

Kat,

I really believe that we are on the same page here, but let's have a closer look  :)

2Cr 5:21
For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

In this verse Christ was not made to be sin,
but a sin offering, (there was a topic 'He was made sin' a while back, that went into this fully.


Yes, this is a interesting verse, but no where did I even imply that God made Jesus sin. :) Of course he was a sin offering. (No confusion here)

Is sin wrong?  Let's look at these scripture.

1Jo 3:8  The person who practices sin belongs to the evil one, because the devil has been sinning since the beginning. The reason that the Son of God was revealed was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9  No one who has been born from God practices sin, because God's seed abides in him. Indeed, he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born from God.


Is sin the total opposite of love? Of course it is, because sin is everything that love is not, and just as John states "who practices sin belongs to the evil one, because the devil has been sinning since the beginning"

i want to make a quick note on 1 John 3:9.

There has only been one "man" born from God and that is the man Jesus Christ.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

I hope you are not implying that there is any man, woman or child walking the Earth today, free of sin? Even Paul knew that he was not free of sin. :)


So is sin wrong? Once again the act of sin does no good! Or is that the whole truth?

God created Satan for we know that God created evil. Why? For our instruction, surely the answer can be nothing else. Plese tell me what if I am wrong. So is sin wrong? Well it is an act of evil and sin surely isn't righteous. So then is sin pointless? Not if we learn from it.

It was God who intended, from the beginning that Satan and man sin. 
That does not make God a sinner.  For sin is a "mistake", a "missing of the mark",
a "falling short of the glory of God" (Thayer definition). 
Man (and Satan) is accountable for his sins, because we sinned willingly from the heart,
but God takes responsibility for their sin,
and therefore had already provided them a Saviour before the foundation of the world,


Kat you will have to show me where I even remotely implied that God is a sinner :)

Are you saying here: Man (and Satan) is accountable for his sins, because we sinned willingly from the heart, of our own free will and choice, even when we are told that:

Jer 10:23
O LORD, I know that the way of man [is] not in himself: [it is] not in man that walketh to direct his steps

Ray writes of this in his here http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html

It is generally taught that Adam and Eve were spiritually perfect immediately after their creation, seeing that it says,

"And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good…" (Gen. 1:31).

Never mind the fact that even poisonous snakes were also "very good." Of course everything God made was "good." It was, in fact, even "perfect"—perfect, that is, for the purpose for which it was created.
But did our first parents have perfect and good spiritual character of heart when God completed them? Absolutely not! Far from it! They were as carnal-minded as any two people who have ever lived.
The Scriptures show us that Eve committed every known category of sin there is, before she ever ate of the forbidden fruit. This one should knock your socks off. It knocked mine off when I first discovered it.


Nothing and I mean nothing happens or has happened or will happen (Is, Was and Will Be) with out the foreknowledge of God.

Is sin wrong if God will's it? Can we truly still say "YES!"

I don't think so.

Thanks for the exchange of ideas :)

With Love,
Darren
« Last Edit: September 15, 2006, 07:38:11 PM by YellowStone »
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mannonthecross

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2006, 09:32:16 PM »

Darren,

I believe I understand where you're coming from. I'm not sure that I can articulate it any better.
Anyway, below was taken from LOF Part X, in which Ray states that Evil is not 'Sin'.
Just thought I'd add my penny's worth.

Tom

Now the word ra does not have a conscience and therefore has no moral bias. Evil is not ‘SIN.’ God created evil; God Himself is not evil. And strictly speaking, God did not create sin, nor has God Himself ever sinned. What God has done is created humanity in a spiritually weakened state that is totally incapable of even understanding spiritual laws and principle, let alone being capable of obeying them. And this was not a sin or mistake on God’s part, this was weakness by design. Therefore, God is responsible (certainly not accountable), but responsible for all sin. And God has already taken responsibility for all sin by Sacrificing His Son, Jesus Christ:

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YellowStone

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2006, 10:53:22 PM »

Thanks ManOnTheCross :)

You are right EVIL is not the same word as SIN, but I'm not sure that there is any scriptual proof that an evil person or spirit never sinned. I might be of course wrong.

On the other hand, Paul knew he was a sinner and spoke of the evil inside of him.

The next question is of course can someone sin and not have evil within, just as Paul had?

I understand completely about God being respondsible but not accountable. However, was there ever a sin committed in this universe that God did not foreordain?

If not, then likewise no one has ever sinned of their own free will, willingly but not of their own free will, which is why we are not held respondsible. God is awesome isn't he.

There is so much that can be learned from sin and evil doers once we understand that no one not even the most evil amongst us is truly respodsible for their actions. Hate then has no place in this persons heart, rather joy, for being able to discern the act for what it is.

Love to you all,

Darren
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orion77

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2006, 12:02:19 AM »

Darren, very interesting subject.  I have often thought of these verses and wondered what is meant of them:


(1Jo 3:9)  Everyone who has been begotten of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.

(1Jo 3:10)  By this the children of God and the children of the devil are revealed: Everyone not practicing righteousness is not of God; also the one not loving his brother.


Everyone begotten of God does not sin, and not able to sin, because he has been born of God.  WELL, that throws me out of the mix, if taken carnally.  But, just exactly what is sin?  Sin is  transgression of the law, but Jesus came to fullfill the law.  We, who are begotten of God are no longer under law, but grace.  Now it makes a little sense.  We cannot sin any longer because the law no longer has power over us.  Even though we see ourselves as sinners, and sinners we are, but in the eyes of God, through the sacrifice of Christ, we no longer are.


Here is another very interesting verse in this book:

(1Jo 3:4)  Everyone practicing sin also practices lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.


Sin is lawlessness, so those who practice lawlessness are under sin, and sin is of the law of Moses.  Since after the sacrifice of Christ, under the new covenant, those who still consider themselves under the law, no matter how hard they try to keep it, practice lawlessness.  Because they are not obedient to the higher Spiritual Law ushered in by Jesus.

That whole chapter of 1John, chapter 3 is great reading. 

Moving from the old to the new covenant, into the Law of Christ and His commandments of love is what many are not obedient to.  Those are the workers of lawlessness.


(Mat 7:21)  Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but the ones who do the will of My Father in Heaven.

(Mat 7:22)  Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many works of power?

(Mat 7:23)  And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; "depart from Me, those working lawlessness!" Psa. 6:8


God bless,

Gary
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ned

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2006, 02:27:49 AM »

Hi Gary & Darren,

Everyone begotten of God does not sin, and not able to sin, because he has been born of God. WELL, that throws me out of the mix, if taken carnally. But, just exactly what is sin? Sin is transgression of the law, but Jesus came to fullfill the law. We, who are begotten of God are no longer under law, but grace. Now it makes a little sense. We cannot sin any longer because the law no longer has power over us. Even though we see ourselves as sinners, and sinners we are, but in the eyes of God, through the sacrifice of Christ, we no longer are.Gary

There is so much that can be learned from sin and evil doers once we understand that no one not even the most evil amongst us is truly respodsible for their actions. Hate then has no place in this persons heart, rather joy, for being able to discern the act for what it is. Darren

To me, these verses verify your quotes above.
Luk 10:19  I have given you the power to trample on snakes and scorpions and to defeat the power of your enemy Satan. Nothing can harm you.
Luk 10:20  But don't be happy because evil spirits obey you. Be happy that your names are written in heaven!


I have wondered specifically about being given the power to overcome Satan, knowing I still sin, but thanks to this thread, I see the meaning.

Thank you God!

Love to all,
Marie
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Kat

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2006, 01:15:30 PM »


Hi Yellowstone,

We are trying to get ideas across here, that are hard to explane without using great detail.
So I have gathered some excerpts from Ray's papers, to help in my explanation.
I do believe we are held accountable for our sins,
we will in our hearts to make the choices that are sin, but it is not free will.

http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html ------------------------------------

The Bible doesn’t say that man doesn’t have a HEART. It doesn’t say that he doesn’t have a MIND. It doesn’t say that he can’t THINK. It doesn’t say he can’t make CHOICES. It doesn’t say he doesn’t have a WILL. It doesn’t say he can’t carry out his will through his thoughts, choices, planning, action, and deeds. What it does say is that: MAN IS NOT A GOD WHO CAN DO THESE THINGS INDEPENDENTLY AND FREELY FROM THE INTENTIONS AND PURPOSE OF HIS CREATOR!!   THAT’S what the Bible really says!

We are “accountable” for what comes out of our arrogant heart, but God is “responsible” for giving us such an heart in the first place.

 http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html    -----------------------------------------------------

Now the word ra does not have a conscience and therefore has no moral bias. Evil is not ‘SIN.’ God created evil; God Himself is not evil. And strictly speaking, God did not create sin, nor has God Himself ever sinned. What God has done is created humanity in a spiritually weakened state that is totally incapable of even understanding spiritual laws and principle, let alone being capable of obeying them. And this was not a sin or mistake on God’s part, this was weakness by design. Therefore, God is responsible (certainly not accountable), but responsible for all sin. And God has already taken responsibility for all sin by Sacrificing His Son, Jesus Christ:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course I do not believe anyone is free of sin while in the flesh,
I agree with what orion77 had to say on this matter.

Hoping this will help give us a better understanding on these things.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat 




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YellowStone

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2006, 09:33:19 PM »

Kat,

Once again, I do not think we are on seperate paths here; however, we have digressed from my original topic: What is sin?

I want to just spend a moment on the differences / similarities of evil and sin.

Can one be evil and never sin?     I think not.
Can one sin and have no evil?        Once again, according to Paul, one cannot.

Rom 7:19
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

To my knowledge Paul, here is saying that he does evil actions, all be it, unwittingly. The question, was Paul sinning? The answer must be yes.

So the final question is: If there were no evil, would there be then no sin?

This is a very good question, because neither Adam nor Eve, were evil prior to the temptation of Satan, but not a single man apart from our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, has lived free of evil and of sin.

I think I might have said sin is evil; when infact sin is the fruit of evil, be it unpure thoughts, words or actions.

Surely there is no middle ground between perfection and inperfection. You either are perfect or you are not. Does this make sense?

Your quote from Ray is great! :)

What it does say is that: MAN IS NOT A GOD WHO CAN DO THESE THINGS INDEPENDENTLY AND FREELY FROM THE INTENTIONS AND PURPOSE OF HIS CREATOR!!    THAT’S what the Bible really says!

What are the Scriptures saying? It is saying that man can do NOTHING independantly and freely from the intentions (purpose/will) of God.

Kat, this now brings us right back to my original post. If every action, word or thought is according to Gods purpose, then what then is sin?

How can we as enlightened followers of truth, see a sinful act, regardless of how depraved and feel anything but love for all involved, including the inflictor. Did the inflictor, commit this crime on his/her own, independanly from God's purpose? If the answer is NO, then did the person sin? Well of course. :)

So what then is sin? It is an action, word or thought that is not pure or perfect.

Surely, no blame can be placed on the crime, for they were not responsible for their actions, because they were merely living according to God's purpose, just as we all are.

But just as God, holds us accountable, so too must we hold gross sinners accountable for theirs.

Are we to feel remorse, sorrow, hate, distain, etc for the sinner? Why feel anything other than comfort because life is occuring according to the purpose of God. If this is not true, then why then do we pray for God's will to be done in the "Lord's Prayer" of the church. Why pray for it then get all wraught up, when it happens outside of our expectations.

The reason that neither you or I (I hope) have committed such horrendous crimes, is because it was not God's purpose for us.

Does this make sense?

Thanks for your comment :)

Love to you and all reading this.

Darren
« Last Edit: September 16, 2006, 09:36:06 PM by YellowStone »
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orion77

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2006, 11:41:49 PM »

Hello to all,

This is a interesting topic, for sure.  One we all wrestle with from time to time. 

We are told there are none righteous, not one.  Then we are told we cannot sin, but we all know we do, also we are told we all sin.  So, the question of what is sin is very pertinent to our growth and knowledge.

Under the law of Moses in the eyes of God, we all are sinners.  Nobody except Christ has been able to fullfill the requirements of the law.  Since Christ the new covenant and a higher Spiritual Law was instituted.  Seems to me, sinning now is not being obedient to God, and moving out from under the
old law and into the new. 

God started dragging me into His truths many years ago, and to this day there is no way I could live up to the law of Moses, no matter how hard I try.  Even the law of Christ: loving God with all my heart, I am guilty of.  Loving my neighbor as myself, I am guilty of.  Forgiving my enemies, I am guilty of. 


(1Jo 3:8)  The one practicing sin is of the devil, because the devil sins from the beginning. For this the Son of God was revealed, that He might undo the works of the devil.

(1Jo 3:9)  Everyone who has been begotten of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.

(1Jo 3:10)  By this the children of God and the children of the devil are revealed: Everyone not practicing righteousness is not of God; also the one not loving his brother.

(1Jo 3:11)  Because this is the message which you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,


How can we practice righteousness and not sin according to these verses?  It comes from nothing that we do ourselves.  It's from God and God only.  And that by the sacrifice of Jesus.  Under the law of Moses, the sense of physical ceremonies and our own works, we attempted to become righteous in the eyes of God.  Now, under the new covenant, we are righteous, because of what Jesus did, not us.  We no longer serve God out of duty, but out of love, because He loved us first.

Under the old, there was alot of judgment, under the new there is alot of mercy and forgiving.  The difference is night and day.  Being obedient to God is truly following Jesus, and allowing God to truly be the soverign God He is, by letting Him forgive us.

Those, who still see themselves under the law of Moses, which is but a shadow of the new, can never see these things, while still carnally minded.  It takes an act from God to begin to show us these things.

Hopefully I am not way off track, and have not crossed any lines, but this is what God has been putting on my heart lately.  Seems to clear up some confusion to the sin question.

God bless,

Gary
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Laren

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2006, 11:49:21 PM »

This is a summary of something I read, and it got me thinking.  I would be interested in what others think.  

Sin is not about bad behavior, it's about believing the lie, the lie that the serpent told in the garden.  

Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree in the garden?”

The woman said to the serpent, ‘From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch, or you will die.”

The serpent said, ‘You surly will not die. For God knows that in the day that you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:1-5.

Sin is believing that we can become like God by our own works.  

“The one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning,” 1 John 3:8.

“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. When ever he speaks the lie he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies,” John 8:44.

The serpent told her that if she were to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil she would be like Him.

How Eve responded to the lure of the lie would shape the way of things for all the world because, “The woman saw that the tree was desirable to make one wise (so) she took from it’s fruit and ate, and she gave some to her husband and he ate,” Genesis 3:6.

In believing the lie, man attempted to become like God by his own work.

By believing the serpent and honoring him one becomes a child of the serpent, a brood of vipers that would desire the things of their father. So God later instituted the law, to show man his sin, to show him that he can't become like God by works.

Sin is man trying to get into the presence of God, trying to become like God by our own self works.

For they exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.” Romans 1:21-25

By trying to follow the law, trying to be good, sin is empowered.  

“Is the law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except though the law; for I would not have known about coveting if the law had not said, ‘You shall not covet.’ But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the law sin is dead. I was once alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me,” Romans 7:7-11.

We often fail to see and receive the righteousness that was freely dispensed to us who believed that God had redeemed them through the Son, Jesus Christ.

Man’s desire to become like God through believing the lie, resulted in death. We became a slave to the law of sin and death, by trying to achieve righteousness through it.

For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes,” Romans 10:1-4.

Although man wishes to obtain life through his own righteousness he is condemned to remain in death by his own labor.

Now we can see how John can write this,

“No one who abides in Him sins,” 1 John 3:6.

If we believe that we are righteous and have come into the presence of God by the faith of Christ, we will stop trying to become righteous by our own ability.

“I count all things to be loss because of the surpassing value of the knowledge of Jesus Christ my Lord, because I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the law, but that which is through the faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of His faith,” Philippians 3:8-9.  

Sin is not our bad behavior.

Sin is man still under the spell of the serpent of old. The spell that keeps men thinking they themselves  need to do something to be restored to all that God is and is in.
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Laren

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2006, 11:51:54 PM »

Hello to all,

This is a interesting topic, for sure.  One we all wrestle with from time to time. 

We are told there are none righteous, not one.  Then we are told we cannot sin, but we all know we do, also we are told we all sin.  So, the question of what is sin is very pertinent to our growth and knowledge.

Under the law of Moses in the eyes of God, we all are sinners.  Nobody except Christ has been able to fullfill the requirements of the law.  Since Christ the new covenant and a higher Spiritual Law was instituted.  Seems to me, sinning now is not being obedient to God, and moving out from under the
old law and into the new. 

God started dragging me into His truths many years ago, and to this day there is no way I could live up to the law of Moses, no matter how hard I try.  Even the law of Christ: loving God with all my heart, I am guilty of.  Loving my neighbor as myself, I am guilty of.  Forgiving my enemies, I am guilty of. 


(1Jo 3:8)  The one practicing sin is of the devil, because the devil sins from the beginning. For this the Son of God was revealed, that He might undo the works of the devil.

(1Jo 3:9)  Everyone who has been begotten of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.

(1Jo 3:10)  By this the children of God and the children of the devil are revealed: Everyone not practicing righteousness is not of God; also the one not loving his brother.

(1Jo 3:11)  Because this is the message which you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,


How can we practice righteousness and not sin according to these verses?  It comes from nothing that we do ourselves.  It's from God and God only.  And that by the sacrifice of Jesus.  Under the law of Moses, the sense of physical ceremonies and our own works, we attempted to become righteous in the eyes of God.  Now, under the new covenant, we are righteous, because of what Jesus did, not us.  We no longer serve God out of duty, but out of love, because He loved us first.

Under the old, there was alot of judgment, under the new there is alot of mercy and forgiving.  The difference is night and day.  Being obedient to God is truly following Jesus, and allowing God to truly be the soverign God He is, by letting Him forgive us.

Those, who still see themselves under the law of Moses, which is but a shadow of the new, can never see these things, while still carnally minded.  It takes an act from God to begin to show us these things.

Hopefully I am not way off track, and have not crossed any lines, but this is what God has been putting on my heart lately.  Seems to clear up some confusion to the sin question.

God bless,

Gary

 :) :)
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orion77

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2006, 12:25:24 AM »

Sin is an important study for us to grow.  Study the entire 10th chapter of Hebrews.  Clears up a lot of things.  We live by FAITH.

Helo Laren, we posted around the same time with the same subject matter,  8).

God bless,

Gary
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Laren

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2006, 02:52:50 AM »

Sin is an important study for us to grow.  Study the entire 10th chapter of Hebrews.  Clears up a lot of things.  We live by FAITH.

Helo Laren, we posted around the same time with the same subject matter,  8).

God bless,

Gary

Thanks Gary for posting re: Hebrews 10, a wonderful chapter.  i posted some of the verses that jumped out at me as well as a few others. 

Heb 10:9  Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
 
Heb 10:10  By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
 
Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 10:19  Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Heb 10:20  By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Heb 10:22  Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Heb 10:23  Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

Heb 10:24  And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Heb 10:38  Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Heb 10:39  But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Rom 14:23  And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

1Jo 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1Jo 5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1Jo 5:5  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

2Pe 1:5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

2Pe 1:6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

2Pe 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

2Pe 1:8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Phi 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Heb 12:2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


It's all about HIM. 
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orion77

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2006, 03:24:35 AM »

Laren, I hear ya.  It's all about Him. 

Was just thinking about when Moses was handed the law, written on two tablets of stone, and when he came down from the mount, as the story goes, he broke the tablets into.  First, they were written on two tablets, why two, and secondly seems it was doomed from the get go, because the people so quickly turned away from the Lord.

Now, in Genesis, God always had the night come before the day.  Interesting?  The old covenant and the new covenant.  Jesus is the Light, the Way, and the Truth.  We all know what the law leads to...death.  Jesus leads us to...life.

Us, in this life have always gone the way of darkness and the wrong way first, then comes the truth, the light.  All of these examples are amazing to me.  They speak very loudly how merciful God really is.  He is the one we are to imitate.


To know that our lives are going in perfect alignment with His will and purpose is true freedom.

God bless,

Gary
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ned

  • Guest
Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2006, 11:51:21 AM »


Sin is believing that we can become like God by our own works. 

In believing the lie, man attempted to become like God by his own work.

By believing the serpent and honoring him one becomes a child of the serpent, a brood of vipers that would desire the things of their father. So God later instituted the law, to show man his sin, to show him that he can't become like God by works.

Sin is man trying to get into the presence of God, trying to become like God by our own self works.

For they exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.” Romans 1:21-25

We often fail to see and receive the righteousness that was freely dispensed to us who believed that God had redeemed them through the Son, Jesus Christ.

Man’s desire to become like God through believing the lie, resulted in death. We became a slave to the law of sin and death, by trying to achieve righteousness through it.

For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes,” Romans 10:1-4.

Although man wishes to obtain life through his own righteousness he is condemned to remain in death by his own labor.



I've picked just a few comments from Laren above which really bring to light the "many called", those who think they have accepted Jesus on their own, those who believe they must, on their own, accept Jesus to be saved, and those who preach to millions of people that the sinner's prayer will save them. Amazing they can't see that their belief is on "their own works" (accepting Jesus on your own would be your own work). Thus, they indeed serve themselves, the beast within. This magnifies the fact that they worship and serve the creature (the beast within) instead of God, because they think they must accept Jesus, of their own works; they really do put themselves above God.

Excellent comments and scripture references, Laren.  Thank you.

Love to all,
Marie
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YellowStone

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2006, 05:38:29 PM »

A quote from Marie:

Thus, they indeed serve themselves, the beast within. This magnifies the fact that they worship and serve the creature (the beast within) instead of God, because they think they must accept Jesus, of their own works; they really do put themselves above God.



Coming right back to the beginning. Are they truly serving themselves, when in fact they are unwittingly, following to the letter, the full purpose of God from the beginning of time?

Can anyone say that this "serving the beast within" is contrary to God's plan. Also, "they think...." Are they truly thinking on their own, free and willingly outside of the will of God. If yes, then God is not all knowing; however, if no, then once again, each thought is according to God's supreme purpose.

What then is sin? Of what benefit is it to us? Thankfully, we are more than puppets on a string and for some strange (carnal) reason, I still "feel" like I have control of "my" thoughts and that "I" can still fathom complex issues on my own (with the help of God.) God has so graciously allowed us to feel emotion and feel proud for our accomplishments, even though all of them are according to his will.

If God's purpose is for some of us to sin more than others, it has to be more than for the "righteous" of us to judge. That is pure foolishness, at least to my level of understanding. Why then are some people difficult to love? Is it because we are seeing their actions as personal to us, instead of seeing them as players in Gods grand plan for us all. How then can we not love each and everyone of them, for they are not different than anyone of us, for each of us lives according to the enlightenment that God has personally bestowed on each one of us. Instead of being hurt and angered over some event, we should rather ask God for understanding so that we may garner some understanding from the event/s so that our knowledge and love for him and all around us, (even terrorists) can grow according to his will.

Marie, does this make sense to you? Comments always welcome.

In God we trust...

Darren





« Last Edit: September 17, 2006, 05:42:22 PM by YellowStone »
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mannonthecross

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Re: What is Sin? And who originated this post?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2006, 08:00:28 PM »

Darren,

Well spoken!
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