> General Discussions
What is Sin? And who originated this post?
YellowStone:
Kat,
Once again, I do not think we are on seperate paths here; however, we have digressed from my original topic: What is sin?
I want to just spend a moment on the differences / similarities of evil and sin.
Can one be evil and never sin? I think not.
Can one sin and have no evil? Once again, according to Paul, one cannot.
Rom 7:19
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
To my knowledge Paul, here is saying that he does evil actions, all be it, unwittingly. The question, was Paul sinning? The answer must be yes.
So the final question is: If there were no evil, would there be then no sin?
This is a very good question, because neither Adam nor Eve, were evil prior to the temptation of Satan, but not a single man apart from our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, has lived free of evil and of sin.
I think I might have said sin is evil; when infact sin is the fruit of evil, be it unpure thoughts, words or actions.
Surely there is no middle ground between perfection and inperfection. You either are perfect or you are not. Does this make sense?
Your quote from Ray is great! :)
What it does say is that: MAN IS NOT A GOD WHO CAN DO THESE THINGS INDEPENDENTLY AND FREELY FROM THE INTENTIONS AND PURPOSE OF HIS CREATOR!! THAT’S what the Bible really says!
What are the Scriptures saying? It is saying that man can do NOTHING independantly and freely from the intentions (purpose/will) of God.
Kat, this now brings us right back to my original post. If every action, word or thought is according to Gods purpose, then what then is sin?
How can we as enlightened followers of truth, see a sinful act, regardless of how depraved and feel anything but love for all involved, including the inflictor. Did the inflictor, commit this crime on his/her own, independanly from God's purpose? If the answer is NO, then did the person sin? Well of course. :)
So what then is sin? It is an action, word or thought that is not pure or perfect.
Surely, no blame can be placed on the crime, for they were not responsible for their actions, because they were merely living according to God's purpose, just as we all are.
But just as God, holds us accountable, so too must we hold gross sinners accountable for theirs.
Are we to feel remorse, sorrow, hate, distain, etc for the sinner? Why feel anything other than comfort because life is occuring according to the purpose of God. If this is not true, then why then do we pray for God's will to be done in the "Lord's Prayer" of the church. Why pray for it then get all wraught up, when it happens outside of our expectations.
The reason that neither you or I (I hope) have committed such horrendous crimes, is because it was not God's purpose for us.
Does this make sense?
Thanks for your comment :)
Love to you and all reading this.
Darren
orion77:
Hello to all,
This is a interesting topic, for sure. One we all wrestle with from time to time.
We are told there are none righteous, not one. Then we are told we cannot sin, but we all know we do, also we are told we all sin. So, the question of what is sin is very pertinent to our growth and knowledge.
Under the law of Moses in the eyes of God, we all are sinners. Nobody except Christ has been able to fullfill the requirements of the law. Since Christ the new covenant and a higher Spiritual Law was instituted. Seems to me, sinning now is not being obedient to God, and moving out from under the
old law and into the new.
God started dragging me into His truths many years ago, and to this day there is no way I could live up to the law of Moses, no matter how hard I try. Even the law of Christ: loving God with all my heart, I am guilty of. Loving my neighbor as myself, I am guilty of. Forgiving my enemies, I am guilty of.
(1Jo 3:8) The one practicing sin is of the devil, because the devil sins from the beginning. For this the Son of God was revealed, that He might undo the works of the devil.
(1Jo 3:9) Everyone who has been begotten of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.
(1Jo 3:10) By this the children of God and the children of the devil are revealed: Everyone not practicing righteousness is not of God; also the one not loving his brother.
(1Jo 3:11) Because this is the message which you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,
How can we practice righteousness and not sin according to these verses? It comes from nothing that we do ourselves. It's from God and God only. And that by the sacrifice of Jesus. Under the law of Moses, the sense of physical ceremonies and our own works, we attempted to become righteous in the eyes of God. Now, under the new covenant, we are righteous, because of what Jesus did, not us. We no longer serve God out of duty, but out of love, because He loved us first.
Under the old, there was alot of judgment, under the new there is alot of mercy and forgiving. The difference is night and day. Being obedient to God is truly following Jesus, and allowing God to truly be the soverign God He is, by letting Him forgive us.
Those, who still see themselves under the law of Moses, which is but a shadow of the new, can never see these things, while still carnally minded. It takes an act from God to begin to show us these things.
Hopefully I am not way off track, and have not crossed any lines, but this is what God has been putting on my heart lately. Seems to clear up some confusion to the sin question.
God bless,
Gary
Laren:
This is a summary of something I read, and it got me thinking. I would be interested in what others think.
Sin is not about bad behavior, it's about believing the lie, the lie that the serpent told in the garden.
Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree in the garden?”
The woman said to the serpent, ‘From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch, or you will die.”
The serpent said, ‘You surly will not die. For God knows that in the day that you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:1-5.
Sin is believing that we can become like God by our own works.
“The one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning,” 1 John 3:8.
“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. When ever he speaks the lie he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies,” John 8:44.
The serpent told her that if she were to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil she would be like Him.
How Eve responded to the lure of the lie would shape the way of things for all the world because, “The woman saw that the tree was desirable to make one wise (so) she took from it’s fruit and ate, and she gave some to her husband and he ate,” Genesis 3:6.
In believing the lie, man attempted to become like God by his own work.
By believing the serpent and honoring him one becomes a child of the serpent, a brood of vipers that would desire the things of their father. So God later instituted the law, to show man his sin, to show him that he can't become like God by works.
Sin is man trying to get into the presence of God, trying to become like God by our own self works.
For they exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.” Romans 1:21-25
By trying to follow the law, trying to be good, sin is empowered.
“Is the law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except though the law; for I would not have known about coveting if the law had not said, ‘You shall not covet.’ But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the law sin is dead. I was once alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me,” Romans 7:7-11.
We often fail to see and receive the righteousness that was freely dispensed to us who believed that God had redeemed them through the Son, Jesus Christ.
Man’s desire to become like God through believing the lie, resulted in death. We became a slave to the law of sin and death, by trying to achieve righteousness through it.
For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes,” Romans 10:1-4.
Although man wishes to obtain life through his own righteousness he is condemned to remain in death by his own labor.
Now we can see how John can write this,
“No one who abides in Him sins,” 1 John 3:6.
If we believe that we are righteous and have come into the presence of God by the faith of Christ, we will stop trying to become righteous by our own ability.
“I count all things to be loss because of the surpassing value of the knowledge of Jesus Christ my Lord, because I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the law, but that which is through the faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of His faith,” Philippians 3:8-9.
Sin is not our bad behavior.
Sin is man still under the spell of the serpent of old. The spell that keeps men thinking they themselves need to do something to be restored to all that God is and is in.
Laren:
--- Quote from: orion77 on September 16, 2006, 11:41:49 PM ---Hello to all,
This is a interesting topic, for sure. One we all wrestle with from time to time.
We are told there are none righteous, not one. Then we are told we cannot sin, but we all know we do, also we are told we all sin. So, the question of what is sin is very pertinent to our growth and knowledge.
Under the law of Moses in the eyes of God, we all are sinners. Nobody except Christ has been able to fullfill the requirements of the law. Since Christ the new covenant and a higher Spiritual Law was instituted. Seems to me, sinning now is not being obedient to God, and moving out from under the
old law and into the new.
God started dragging me into His truths many years ago, and to this day there is no way I could live up to the law of Moses, no matter how hard I try. Even the law of Christ: loving God with all my heart, I am guilty of. Loving my neighbor as myself, I am guilty of. Forgiving my enemies, I am guilty of.
(1Jo 3:8) The one practicing sin is of the devil, because the devil sins from the beginning. For this the Son of God was revealed, that He might undo the works of the devil.
(1Jo 3:9) Everyone who has been begotten of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.
(1Jo 3:10) By this the children of God and the children of the devil are revealed: Everyone not practicing righteousness is not of God; also the one not loving his brother.
(1Jo 3:11) Because this is the message which you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,
How can we practice righteousness and not sin according to these verses? It comes from nothing that we do ourselves. It's from God and God only. And that by the sacrifice of Jesus. Under the law of Moses, the sense of physical ceremonies and our own works, we attempted to become righteous in the eyes of God. Now, under the new covenant, we are righteous, because of what Jesus did, not us. We no longer serve God out of duty, but out of love, because He loved us first.
Under the old, there was alot of judgment, under the new there is alot of mercy and forgiving. The difference is night and day. Being obedient to God is truly following Jesus, and allowing God to truly be the soverign God He is, by letting Him forgive us.
Those, who still see themselves under the law of Moses, which is but a shadow of the new, can never see these things, while still carnally minded. It takes an act from God to begin to show us these things.
Hopefully I am not way off track, and have not crossed any lines, but this is what God has been putting on my heart lately. Seems to clear up some confusion to the sin question.
God bless,
Gary
--- End quote ---
:) :)
orion77:
Sin is an important study for us to grow. Study the entire 10th chapter of Hebrews. Clears up a lot of things. We live by FAITH.
Helo Laren, we posted around the same time with the same subject matter, 8).
God bless,
Gary
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