> General Discussions
What is Sin? And who originated this post?
mannonthecross:
Darren,
I believe I understand where you're coming from. I'm not sure that I can articulate it any better.
Anyway, below was taken from LOF Part X, in which Ray states that Evil is not 'Sin'.
Just thought I'd add my penny's worth.
Tom
Now the word ra does not have a conscience and therefore has no moral bias. Evil is not ‘SIN.’ God created evil; God Himself is not evil. And strictly speaking, God did not create sin, nor has God Himself ever sinned. What God has done is created humanity in a spiritually weakened state that is totally incapable of even understanding spiritual laws and principle, let alone being capable of obeying them. And this was not a sin or mistake on God’s part, this was weakness by design. Therefore, God is responsible (certainly not accountable), but responsible for all sin. And God has already taken responsibility for all sin by Sacrificing His Son, Jesus Christ:
YellowStone:
Thanks ManOnTheCross :)
You are right EVIL is not the same word as SIN, but I'm not sure that there is any scriptual proof that an evil person or spirit never sinned. I might be of course wrong.
On the other hand, Paul knew he was a sinner and spoke of the evil inside of him.
The next question is of course can someone sin and not have evil within, just as Paul had?
I understand completely about God being respondsible but not accountable. However, was there ever a sin committed in this universe that God did not foreordain?
If not, then likewise no one has ever sinned of their own free will, willingly but not of their own free will, which is why we are not held respondsible. God is awesome isn't he.
There is so much that can be learned from sin and evil doers once we understand that no one not even the most evil amongst us is truly respodsible for their actions. Hate then has no place in this persons heart, rather joy, for being able to discern the act for what it is.
Love to you all,
Darren
orion77:
Darren, very interesting subject. I have often thought of these verses and wondered what is meant of them:
(1Jo 3:9) Everyone who has been begotten of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.
(1Jo 3:10) By this the children of God and the children of the devil are revealed: Everyone not practicing righteousness is not of God; also the one not loving his brother.
Everyone begotten of God does not sin, and not able to sin, because he has been born of God. WELL, that throws me out of the mix, if taken carnally. But, just exactly what is sin? Sin is transgression of the law, but Jesus came to fullfill the law. We, who are begotten of God are no longer under law, but grace. Now it makes a little sense. We cannot sin any longer because the law no longer has power over us. Even though we see ourselves as sinners, and sinners we are, but in the eyes of God, through the sacrifice of Christ, we no longer are.
Here is another very interesting verse in this book:
(1Jo 3:4) Everyone practicing sin also practices lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
Sin is lawlessness, so those who practice lawlessness are under sin, and sin is of the law of Moses. Since after the sacrifice of Christ, under the new covenant, those who still consider themselves under the law, no matter how hard they try to keep it, practice lawlessness. Because they are not obedient to the higher Spiritual Law ushered in by Jesus.
That whole chapter of 1John, chapter 3 is great reading.
Moving from the old to the new covenant, into the Law of Christ and His commandments of love is what many are not obedient to. Those are the workers of lawlessness.
(Mat 7:21) Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but the ones who do the will of My Father in Heaven.
(Mat 7:22) Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many works of power?
(Mat 7:23) And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; "depart from Me, those working lawlessness!" Psa. 6:8
God bless,
Gary
ned:
Hi Gary & Darren,
--- Quote from: orion77 on September 16, 2006, 12:02:19 AM ---Everyone begotten of God does not sin, and not able to sin, because he has been born of God. WELL, that throws me out of the mix, if taken carnally. But, just exactly what is sin? Sin is transgression of the law, but Jesus came to fullfill the law. We, who are begotten of God are no longer under law, but grace. Now it makes a little sense. We cannot sin any longer because the law no longer has power over us. Even though we see ourselves as sinners, and sinners we are, but in the eyes of God, through the sacrifice of Christ, we no longer are.Gary
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: YellowStone on September 15, 2006, 10:53:22 PM ---There is so much that can be learned from sin and evil doers once we understand that no one not even the most evil amongst us is truly respodsible for their actions. Hate then has no place in this persons heart, rather joy, for being able to discern the act for what it is. Darren
--- End quote ---
To me, these verses verify your quotes above.
Luk 10:19 I have given you the power to trample on snakes and scorpions and to defeat the power of your enemy Satan. Nothing can harm you.
Luk 10:20 But don't be happy because evil spirits obey you. Be happy that your names are written in heaven!
I have wondered specifically about being given the power to overcome Satan, knowing I still sin, but thanks to this thread, I see the meaning.
Thank you God!
Love to all,
Marie
Kat:
Hi Yellowstone,
We are trying to get ideas across here, that are hard to explane without using great detail.
So I have gathered some excerpts from Ray's papers, to help in my explanation.
I do believe we are held accountable for our sins,
we will in our hearts to make the choices that are sin, but it is not free will.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html ------------------------------------
The Bible doesn’t say that man doesn’t have a HEART. It doesn’t say that he doesn’t have a MIND. It doesn’t say that he can’t THINK. It doesn’t say he can’t make CHOICES. It doesn’t say he doesn’t have a WILL. It doesn’t say he can’t carry out his will through his thoughts, choices, planning, action, and deeds. What it does say is that: MAN IS NOT A GOD WHO CAN DO THESE THINGS INDEPENDENTLY AND FREELY FROM THE INTENTIONS AND PURPOSE OF HIS CREATOR!! THAT’S what the Bible really says!
We are “accountable” for what comes out of our arrogant heart, but God is “responsible” for giving us such an heart in the first place.
http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html -----------------------------------------------------
Now the word ra does not have a conscience and therefore has no moral bias. Evil is not ‘SIN.’ God created evil; God Himself is not evil. And strictly speaking, God did not create sin, nor has God Himself ever sinned. What God has done is created humanity in a spiritually weakened state that is totally incapable of even understanding spiritual laws and principle, let alone being capable of obeying them. And this was not a sin or mistake on God’s part, this was weakness by design. Therefore, God is responsible (certainly not accountable), but responsible for all sin. And God has already taken responsibility for all sin by Sacrificing His Son, Jesus Christ:
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Of course I do not believe anyone is free of sin while in the flesh,
I agree with what orion77 had to say on this matter.
Hoping this will help give us a better understanding on these things.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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