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Free Will (Again)
Chuck4:
I was impressed with Ray's answer to a recent questioner who maintained, in effect, that God wants our love only if it's freely given--without a cause. Ray answers, in part, does your wife love you? Yes? What "makes" her love you? How would you feel if I said that your wife and children told me that there is absolutely NOTHING about you that "makes" them love you? Would that make you feel good? Do they love you "freely" without any reason whatsoever?? He sums it up with that wonderful 1 Jn. 4:19 verse, which says, in effect, God makes us love him.
While pondering this matter, I was reminded of the old pop tune: "You made me love You" first sung by Al Jolson in an old movie. Here are the words. Pretty good theology, yes?
You made me love you,
I didn't want to do it, I didn't want to do it.
You made me want you,
and all the time you knew it, I guess you always knew it.
You made me happy sometimes, you made me glad.
But there were times dear, you made me feel so bad...
Chuck4 (new poster)
orion77:
Welcome to the forum Chuck4. I saw that e-mail, classic response from Ray. Look forward to your future posts.
God bless,
Gary
Kat:
Hi Chuck4,
--- Quote ---I was impressed with Ray's answer to a recent questioner who maintained, in effect, that God wants our love only if it's freely given--without a cause. Ray answers, in part, does your wife love you? Yes? What "makes" her love you? How would you feel if I said that your wife and children told me that there is absolutely NOTHING about you that "makes" them love you? Would that make you feel good?
--- End quote ---
My understanding of what Ray is saying here, is not that we love freely without a cause.
The point he was making, is that there are many things that happen that makes someone love.
--- Quote ---Do they love you "freely" without any reason whatsoever??
--- End quote ---
The answer to this would be no. There are many reasons that we are caused to love someone. All those little things we do for each other everyday are causes, the same goes with God. He brings about the circumstances that bring us to love Him.
1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
mongoose:
Of course, we can't love at all without God...since all love ultimately comes from Him. He knows that we love Him in response to His love for us.
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 1 John 4:18-20
First, God loves us...creates us, and continues His creation and training....so that we can learn to love as He loves.
This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 1 John 4:9-11
We learn to love God as we are taught by Him of His endless and perfect love for us. It is easy to love those who love us first. Then He teaches us to love one another....and eventually to love as He loves, to love even those who don't love us back.
Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. Ephesians 5:1-2
Love comes from God and is what it is all about. A hard lesson that seems to take a lifetime or more. But, just thinking about how much He loves us brings so much joy! How wonderful and beautiful and perfect He is!!!!!!!
Love to you all in Christ,
mongoose
jerreye:
--- Quote ---I was impressed with Ray's answer to a recent questioner who maintained, in effect, that God wants our love only if it's freely given--without a cause. Ray answers, in part, does your wife love you? Yes? What "makes" her love you? How would you feel if I said that your wife and children told me that there is absolutely NOTHING about you that "makes" them love you? Would that make you feel good? Do they love you "freely" without any reason whatsoever?? He sums it up with that wonderful 1 Jn. 4:19 verse, which says, in effect, God makes us love him.
--- End quote ---
This has caused a bit of confusion in me. Ok, my wife MAKES me love her because of what she DOES for me (i.e. - she LOVES me, she CARES for me, etc etc). These are the things that MAKE me love her. NOW...we are to LOVE our enemies. If the reason for loving someone else is based on what they do for us (Love us, care for us etc.) then HOW, pray tell, can we LOVE our enemies? What makes us love them? What do they do FOR US that CAUSES us to loveTHEM? Following me? :o
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