bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Question  (Read 2344 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ChuckH

  • Guest
Question
« on: October 03, 2006, 10:46:45 AM »

Greetings one & all.

I have been reading Ray's stuff for a little more than a year now and have been greatly impacted.  I have a question for any who can help me.....can someone please explain 1 Peter 3:19-20? 

Thanks in advance. 
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Question
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2006, 12:33:49 PM »

Hi Chuck,

Here is how I understand it. The Lord preached by Spirit to all the preceeding generations (through the Prophets) right up until the time of His earthly ministry, and upon His crucifixion, resurrection and Pentecost His Spirit (the same Spirit of Christ) became one with ours.

All the preceeding generations even up to John The Baptist (Mat 11:11  Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.) he (John), along with Adam, David, etc. were in "prison" as they were under the  Old Covenant.

We are of the New Covenant, the reference to Noah is a shadow or a type of the many called, those alive at the time of Noah who heard his message (the Spirit of the Lord through Noah) and did not heed the warnings or scoffed at it were "the called," the 8 who survived the flood (were saved) represent the chosen.

I hope this helps.

If anyone has a better answer or can elaborate on this one please feel free to post it. 

His Peace and Wisdom to you,


Joe
Logged

sansmile

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
  • my beautiful grandchildren
Re: Question
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2006, 12:41:35 PM »

Greetings one & all.

I have been reading Ray's stuff for a little more than a year now and have been greatly impacted. I have a question for any who can help me.....can someone please explain 1 Peter 3:19-20?

Thanks in advance.

Hi ChickH,

(1Pe 3:19)  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

(1Pe 3:20)  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


The spirits in prison are those who still in th bondage of sin (they are still in darkness).

Here is an extract from a study i had saved:

Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

Isaiah 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.



"The pit," is always typical of the grave. Here we have the grave pictured as a "prison." And we are told that God will visit them "after many days." But these were "spirits in prison."

What do the scriptures reveal "in prison," means? Lets look at a few of the many verses which tell us what is meant by this phrase:

Psalms 142:6 Attend unto my cry; for I am brought very low: deliver me from my persecutors; for they are stronger than I.

Psalms 142:7 Bring my soul out of prison, that I may praise thy name: the righteous shall compass me about; for thou shalt deal bountifully with me.

Ecclesiastes 4:13 Better is a poor and a wise child than an old and foolish king, who will no more be admonished.

Ecclesiastes 4:14 For out of prison he cometh to reign; whereas also he that is born in his kingdom becometh poor.

Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Isaiah 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

   Preaching to "spirits in prison," is witnessing to "them that sit in darkness [and bringing them] out of the prison house," and "the opening of the prison to them that are bound." In other words, the "spirits in prison ... in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, were the spirits of those men who heard the witness of Noah and his family, during the 120 years the ark was "a preparing." These were the descendants of both Cain and Seth, who were "in [the] darkness," of rebellion against God, who were "bound," by the bondage of a life of sin.


When does Peter tell us that this witnessing to "spirits in prison," occurred?

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.



  The "spirits in prison," as shown above are those who are separated by their deeds from the true people of God, Noah and his family. It was by and through the preaching of Noah and his family, inspired of God, that Christ "went and preached unto the spirits in prison."


Hope this helps you it helped me

                         Sansmile


 GOD BLESS







Logged
Walk in the Spirit

YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Question
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2006, 07:12:29 PM »

ChuckH asked:

I have been reading Ray's stuff for a little more than a year now and have been greatly impacted. 
I have a question for any who can help me.....can someone please explain 1 Peter 3:19-20? 



Very good question :) Here's my two cents worth based on my understanding of the Scripture

1Pe 3:18
  • For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1Pe 3:19 
  • By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; [/i]

Did Christ preach to the fallen patriarchs? Or was he speaking to fallen heavenly (spiritual) beings such as angels......I think we are aided in this reasoning by Scripture, which states that we are not spiritual but rather dust

Psa 31:5
  • Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.


Ecc 12:7
  • Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Kind of rules out the possibility of preaching to any long since dead human. But in Peter's 2nd letter we read the following: See also Jude 6 (below)

2Pe 2:4
  • For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 6
  • And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

I think if we also look at the Scriptual word translated "preached" (kerusso - Strongs 2784) then everything should fit perfectly :)

Preaching is often likened to teaching and we know that Christ was refered to as a teacher while on Earth in human form.

Jhn 3:2
  • The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

But the word  'kerusso' means more than just teach, rather it means to herald, to proclaim

Here is the meaning as given by the Strongs Concordance

Kerusso - Strongs 2784

1) to be a herald, to officiate as a herald

  a) to proclaim after the manner of a herald

  b) always with the suggestion of formality, gravity and an authority which must be listened to and obeyed

2) to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done

3) used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters pertaining to it, made by John the Baptist, by Jesus, by the apostles and other Christian teachers


It is my understanding that Christ preached to fallen angels (or similiar) in such a way to proclaim his victory over death, to herald his success and I am not suggesting he did it rudely, but I am betting it did not sadden him :)

Comments are alway welcome, because truth is priceless,

Love to all,

Darren


« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 07:36:33 PM by YellowStone »
Logged

justifyothers

  • Guest
Re: Question
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2006, 11:07:02 PM »

ChuckH asked:

I have been reading Ray's stuff for a little more than a year now and have been greatly impacted. 
I have a question for any who can help me.....can someone please explain 1 Peter 3:19-20? 



Very good question :) Here's my two cents worth based on my understanding of the Scripture

1Pe 3:18
  • For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1Pe 3:19 
  • By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; [/i]

Did Christ preach to the fallen patriarchs? Or was he speaking to fallen heavenly (spiritual) beings such as angels......I think we are aided in this reasoning by Scripture, which states that we are not spiritual but rather dust

May I pop in?? It seems like the second part of the verse in question was overlooked.  It pretty clearly defines which spirits He was preaching/heralding to. Those who:
"....formerly were disobedient when the long-suffering of God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared..."   So, who was that??

Who was the Spirit of God preaching to?? Those who were disobedient in the time of Noah.  Well, that was everybody minus eight! Yes, I'm saying their spirits were in "prison" for a time. It does not mean that our bodies do not turn to dust -- just not our spirits. Perhaps this was their judgement time.  It's OK not to have ALL the answers, as long as we don't allow speculative conjecture to run amuk (sp?)

[
Logged

orion77

  • Guest
Re: Question
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2006, 11:09:29 PM »

Good thread and posts, interesting subject with many variances in the world on this subject.  You all have brought up some interesting points.

Before Jesus came and brought a higher spiritual law and fulfilled the law of Moses, the many or the majority tried and failed to keep that law.  They could not, as the entire OT witnesses, and us too, we can not keep the law of Moses.  Only our Lord has been able to fulfill all the requirements of the law.

They were under the shadow of something better to come, which when Jesus came, now the true Light has come.  It's no longer an eye for and eye, now it's bless those who persecute you, and forgive your enemies.  The true character of our Father was declared by Jesus.  They were under a condemnation of death, the law of Moses.  Notice that Moses was not permitted to enter the promised land.  Lots to be said about that.

I think it is an interesting correlation that only 8 souls were saved, in Noahs time, and the circumcision on the 8th day.  Now it is not required to be physically circumcized, but of the heart, here are the real Jews, the true followers of Christ.

We are no longer held prisoners of the law of Moses, now we are prisoners of the new covenant, which is the love of God, through forgiveness and mercy.  


(Psa 107:10 LITV)  Those who live in the darkness, and in the shadow of death, being prisoners in affliction and iron,

(Psa 107:11 LITV)  because they rebelled against the Words of God, and despised the counsel of the Most High;

(Psa 107:12 LITV)  and He humbled their heart by toil; they stumbled, and none were helping;

(Psa 107:13 LITV)  and they cried to Jehovah in their distress; He saved them out of their distresses;

(Psa 107:14 LITV)  He brought them out from darkness and the shadow of death; and He broke their bonds apart.

(Psa 107:15 LITV)  Let them thank Jehovah for His mercy, and His wonders to the sons of man.

(Psa 107:16 LITV)  For He has broken the gates of bronze; and He cut bars of iron in two.

(Psa 146:7 LITV)  who executes judgment for the oppressed; who gives food to the hungry; Jehovah sets free the prisoners;

(Psa 146:8 LITV)  Jehovah opens the eyes of the blind; Jehovah raises those bowed down; Jehovah loves the righteous;


(Isa 24:20 LITV)  Like a drunkard, the earth is staggering, staggering! And it rocks to and fro like a hut. And its trespass is heavy on it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

(Isa 24:21 LITV)  And it shall be in that day, Jehovah shall punish the army of the high place on high, and on the kings of the land on the land.

(Isa 24:22 LITV)  And they will be gathered, a gathering of prisoners in a dungeon. And they shall be shut up in a prison; and after many days they will be visited.

(Isa 24:23 LITV)  Then the moon shall blush, and the sun shall be ashamed, when Jehovah of Hosts shall reign in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem; and before His elders is His glory.

God bless,

Gary
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Question
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2006, 12:34:17 AM »

Hi justifyothers,

At death our body does turn to dust, but we are not in judgment or anywhere.
We are dead, in the grave, until the 1st or 2nd resurrection.

Ecc 12:7  then the dust shall return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God who gave it.

What is being talked about here is, Jesus as the God of the Old Test. preaching through the prophets back then.
Spirits in prison were the people of that time, in prison or darkness, not knowing the truth.
Only after Jesus' death and resurrection, was His Spirit given and our eyes were opened and we were brought out of darkness.
I'm trying to be very basic here, hope it helps.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


 
Logged

YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Question
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2006, 12:44:24 AM »

Yellowstone wrote:

1Pe 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1Pe 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Did Christ preach to the fallen patriarchs? Or was he speaking to fallen heavenly (spiritual) beings such as angels......I think we are aided in this reasoning by Scripture, which states that we are not spiritual but rather dust


Quote from JustifyOthers:

May I pop in?? It seems like the second part of the verse in question was overlooked.  It pretty clearly defines which spirits He was preaching/heralding to. Those who:
"....formerly were disobedient when the long-suffering of God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared..."   So, who was that??[color]

Who was the Spirit of God preaching to?? Those who were disobedient in the time of Noah.  Well, that was everybody minus eight! Yes, I'm saying their spirits were in "prison" for a time. It does not mean that our bodies do not turn to dust -- just not our spirits. Perhaps this was their judgement time.  It's OK not to have ALL the answers, as long as we don't allow speculative conjecture to run amuk (sp?)



[/b]

I'll bite :) You are correct, I quoted the wrong verses, oh well.  ::)

I truly am sorry for the above mistake, but let me share a few of my thoughts on this still.

God made it very clear that "his" spirit would not stay with fleshly man forever.

Gen 6:3
  • And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.


So where does God's spirit go when we die? Where does the flesh go? For without God's spirit, we are nothing.

Ecc 12:7
  • Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


I believe that the Scriptures are very clear on where our spirits return to. It is also very clear on just when we will take on the form of spiritual beings.

1Cr 15:42
  • So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cr 15:43
  • It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Cr 15:44
  • It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Cr 15:45
  • And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.


Christ is the first and the only (as yet) human who is now a quickening spirit or spiritual being. This of course explains why he was able to preach to the imprisoned spirits, for he was spirit, such as they.

Our spirit is not ours, but God's; it returns to him upon our death. I think it is foolish to the extreme to think that only some of God's spirits return to him, but others are thrown in dark prisons. That just goes against all Scriptural reasoning. :)

So if my Scriptual reasoning is sound, then there must be another witness to the spirits being witnessed too.

Certainly, Peter in his second letter does not implicitly tie the building of the ark, the imprisoning of the angels and the destruction of all but eight to the same period of time.

2Pe 2:4-5
  • For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;


However, this is the second time that he brings these two events together. The first was in his first letter:

1Pe 3:18-20
  • For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


This Scripture ties these two events much closer, implying that they were sometime disobedient while God awaited the building of the ark. Many have suggested that these spirits were the "Sons of God" of Gen 6-4, but I don't believe that.

But I do find it very interesting why Peter should not just once but twice link the angelic spirits that Christ preached to and the days of Noah. Is it possible that "the angels that sinned" sinned by demonizing the people of that time, and it was they that were imprisoned when the human hosts were drowned. Sounds reasonable, but their is no Scriptural proof.

Like it or not, there is simply NO scriptual proof that any human apart from Christ was/is conscious of anything after death. :)

Finally, I must answer your last statement:

It's OK not to have ALL the answers, as long as we don't allow speculative conjecture to run amuk

I could not agree more :)

So why would anyone choose to ignore the following:

Ecc 9:5
  • For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
[/b][/color]  :)

Thanks for your comments and I hope I shed some light on my reasoning.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Love,

Darren
« Last Edit: October 04, 2006, 12:56:07 AM by YellowStone »
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.069 seconds with 26 queries.