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Trinity

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Michael A.:
For parsonssc:

Ron,  I happen to agree with you about John 1.  I wrote to Ray a few years ago to try to help him out with that, but he dismissed it without consideration.

However, I don't think "Trinity" is an appropriate description of the Godhead.  For one it's an extra biblical word.  Scripture admonishes us to refrain from speaking our own words, as well as encouraging us to be seeking total unity with God.  For another, it does give one the wrong "picture".  I wrote a rebuttal to the Nicene Creed to a fellow who insisted that we agree to it, and while he agreed in private to what I explained, he still insisted everyone agree with those creeds. But those creeds are erroneous.


If you would like to discuss this, I would be glad to serve.

zander:
HI Michael, sure, feel free to discuss.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

The way i see this verse is that in the beginning was the word (Christ) and the word (Christ) was with God (Father) and the word was God (Christ is God, God is a title, not a name)

The biggest giveaway here is that if there was the word and the word was with someone, that same word cant be with itself and be the same person.  You cant be with something if you are that very something.  You cant be WITH yourself. Therefore it must be talking about 2 seperate entities.  Christ is the word and then he is with God.  Remember that God is a TITLE not a name.  Both Christ and Father are God (gk: Theos, placer/disposer)

Michael A.:
From where in your being does your word come?  There is a verse of scripture that tells us that.  Jesus taught about it when He was asked why He didn't make His disciples wash their hands before eating.

Do you remember?

zander:
Can you supply that scripture?  Is this it?  Can you explain what you mean, because i dont see it?

Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2"Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
 3Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, 'Honor your father and mother'[a] and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' 5But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' 6he is not to 'honor his father[c]' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
 8" 'These people honor me with their lips,
      but their hearts are far from me.
 9They worship me in vain;
      their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[d]"

 10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

 12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

 13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[e] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

 15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."

 16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

 21Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."

 23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."

 24He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

 25The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.

 26He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

 27"Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."

 28Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

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