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Author Topic: Sharing ones possession  (Read 2313 times)

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sfd

  • Guest
Sharing ones possession
« on: October 05, 2006, 11:19:15 AM »

Hi every one.

Act 4:32  And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:33  And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34  Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35  And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Act 4:36  And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Act 4:37  Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles'

During the times of revivals and great outpouring of God's Holy Spirit, the new founded church lived like this in the book of Acts. If we have to look at our present lifestyle and individual attitude we are not living nearby the New Testament ways.
Imagine now what it would have been like if we lived like that and how we all would have been very blessed and not been in need for anything.

Today are all living for our self, we are to contented with what we have and we are to scared to let go of our possessions. Possessions for some and many is a status thing, thus according to scriptures we all return empty handed, leaving everything behind what have so hard for and it all is meaningless, according to Ecclesiastes chapter 1 and 2, it says all is meaningless that we owns, labour with, wisdom (education) and also pleasures we live for are all meaningless.

I am standing under correction, but that what I have been tought and I don't know if I am right or wrong. It is just another topic that i find very hard to talk about in church or with my fellow brothers and sister, because it causes division in the church many says and that it is a close topic for some of them.

Why is it hard for the church (we as believers) to live openly with one another?

Why are we holding on to things that are not eternal and can be destroyed, be lost or being stolen?

Why don't we just give up our riches and possessions to advance the church?

Are we just plain selfish and just living for ourself?

Aye I don't know but all I know is that when I leave this place to heaven I leave empty handed, but only thing that I can account for is my faith in Jesus Christ, and what legacy I left behind.

Please see what I am trying to say, help me if I am wrong so that I can correct my own ways of thinking.

God bless you all.

Love Steve ;)



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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Sharing ones possession
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2006, 09:16:48 PM »

Hi Steve,

It is an interesting question you bring up, there is no way anyone will be able to explain this in a post on this thread. Read the material on Bible Truths day by day and the role of the churches giving birth to the elect will become clearer.

The office of the original apostles and disciples in establishing the church is somewhat different than the office(s) that have been assigned to those of us who have come after and have come out of the denominations of Christianity.

Rom 12:4  For as we have many members in one body and all members have not the same office:

Paul is not only speaking to his contemporaries but all believers through all the generations. The Body of Christ (and it's members) spans over thousands of years not only each individual generation. The office of establishing the churches was given to the apostles and the spiritual gifts they were given differ from the spiritual gifts given to later generations. The portion you quoted from Acts predated the Revelation of Jesus Christ and it's message to all the churches through all the generations of this age.

Are you suggesting that those who hope to be of the elect sell all they have and move onto some giant commune somewhere? Is that practical, what would be the fruit of that action, to establish another denomination? Why has He scattered the elect all over the earth? Why does he refer to His elect as the salt of the earth? Do we season our food with a lump of salt in one place on our food or do we distribute it all over in small amounts?

 
Mat 5:13  Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.


1Pe 1:1  Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
 
1Pe 1:2  Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

It is imperitive that we do not hold our possessions as idols, lusting after more and more things to feed our carnal pride and ego, this humble spirit will be grown in us as He increases and we decrease.

But if we are all to become impoverished who then becomes the providers, do we stop working, do we stop providing for our families and those around us who need a hand? Doesn't the Lord use us to help those around us and judge us accordingly if we don't?


1Ti 5:8  But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

We are in a physical reality learning spiritual things, we are in the world but not of it, many lessons we learn in the flesh are really spiritual shadows.
 
These temporal things that provide for our families, which enable us to help others less fortunate would we really be better off entrusting these things to some "leader" who will be the one to distribute the bounty, John Hagee, Ken Copeland, Benny Hinn or do we entrust it to some group of elders who know what our best interests really are?

I believe God had and has the elect exactly where He wants them, scattered in diverse places depending not on a large group to blend in with but as salt to season the meat given to those whom He calls out of Babylon.

Steve, I hope I did not offend in any way, I just ask you be patient, read and reread the articles and your bible. You are here for a reason, but I can assure you the wisdom you seek does not come overnight, we won't find all the treasure of His Word in our entire lifetime but we will gain understanding day by day.

His Peace and Wisdom to you Brother,

Joe   
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TRUTHSEEKER

  • Guest
Re: Sharing ones possession
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2006, 09:17:29 PM »

Hi every one.

Act 4:32  And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:33  And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34  Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35  And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Act 4:36  And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Act 4:37  Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles'

During the times of revivals and great outpouring of God's Holy Spirit, the new founded church lived like this in the book of Acts. If we have to look at our present lifestyle and individual attitude we are not living nearby the New Testament ways.
Imagine now what it would have been like if we lived like that and how we all would have been very blessed and not been in need for anything.

Today are all living for our self, we are to contented with what we have and we are to scared to let go of our possessions. Possessions for some and many is a status thing, thus according to scriptures we all return empty handed, leaving everything behind what have so hard for and it all is meaningless, according to Ecclesiastes chapter 1 and 2, it says all is meaningless that we owns, labour with, wisdom (education) and also pleasures we live for are all meaningless.

I am standing under correction, but that what I have been tought and I don't know if I am right or wrong. It is just another topic that i find very hard to talk about in church or with my fellow brothers and sister, because it causes division in the church many says and that it is a close topic for some of them.

Why is it hard for the church (we as believers) to live openly with one another?

Why are we holding on to things that are not eternal and can be destroyed, be lost or being stolen?

Why don't we just give up our riches and possessions to advance the church?

Are we just plain selfish and just living for ourself?

Aye I don't know but all I know is that when I leave this place to heaven I leave empty handed, but only thing that I can account for is my faith in Jesus Christ, and what legacy I left behind.

Please see what I am trying to say, help me if I am wrong so that I can correct my own ways of thinking.

God bless you all.

Love Steve ;)


I've heard a long time ago that the reason for the disciples giving their possessions away to meet the needs of others was that Jesus was shortly to return.  If Jesus was to return shortly in their lifetime, why hold on to earthly possessions? Whether this is true or not I would have to look into it a bit further.  Nevertheless, you are right in my book with the assertions that you've made.  The early church understood what it was to truly be Christian.  Jesus said, "Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?”  But what is it that we generally do?  The exact opposite.  We worry about things we have little control over because deep down inside we want to have control.  When we realize we don't have control even over the very next breath we take; we worry.  It's hard to be open with everyone and anyone because many (not all) so called Christians are not very approachable.  The fear is that the more we open ourselves up to others is the more vulnerable we will be for people to hurt us or our pride.  And, God help us if we ever get our little pride hurt from time to time.  We hold on to earthly things for the same reason we are not open with our fellow brother’s and sisters in Christ.  We fear and become worried that all we have is all we are ever going to get.  So we hold on to it as if it were the last morsel of bread on the table.  We do live a very selfish existence.  Much of society is to blame because society says, “it's a dog eat dog world” and “you better get yours because I'm definitely getting mine.”  Instead of separating our selves and coming out from among those who live unto themselves we join in and wallow in their foolishness.  This is wrong and I don't believe God is very pleased.  We don't give up riches or wealth for the exact same reason as the above mentioned.  We feel that all we have in the bank is all we'll ever get.  However, Jesus said:

    25Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what shall ye put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

   26Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

   27Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

   28And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

   29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

   30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

If we ever get the understanding that God is not trying to take away the little that we have but is trying to bless us abundantly we will live differently.  My earnest desire is for God to bless me.  Not for my own good but for the good of all of God's children.  I understand this concept and it is a very good one.  If God blesses you the blessing is not for you.  It is to be shared.  The more we share what God gives us he will bless us with more so we will never suffer lack and we’ll always have more to give.  Just like the early New Testament believers.   Come to think of it, if we lived as if Christ is to return shortly we too won’t be the selfish creatures that we are.

God be with you,

Earlington
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Sharing ones possession
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2006, 09:54:14 PM »

This is from Ray's "tithing" paper, I realize the point of this topic is not tithing but about what we physically should do with money and possessions.


http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html
 


If people feel they need to give something to God, something physical, something they can see and feel good about, then try this:

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove that is that good and acceptable and perfect, will of God" (Rom. 12:1-2).

The Apostle Paul said:

"Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly, or of NECESSITY: for GOD LOVETH A CHEERFUL GIVER." (II Cor.. 9:7).

I would not give another penny to televangelists who peddle the word of God like some cheap merchandise for money. And the amount of money they extort from the public is colossal. What in the world do they do with all that money?

Never have SO MANY… accomplished SO LITTLE … with SO MUCH!

The real missionaries of the Gospel of Jesus Christ have not flown first class to cushy hotels in exotic lands to teach the natives while dressed in their $3000 suits! The real missionaries were often down in the trenches with few if any luxuries. And there are still to be found such dedicated dispensers of God’s Word. These are the ones that are in need of financial support, for sure. These are those who truly are "worthy of their hire."

HELP THE NEEDY, NOT THE GREEDY

Give to the fatherless, the orphans, the strangers, the widows, the poor, and the needy, the homeless, and the beggar on the street, as God gives to you, the wherewithal. Give to reputable charities if you have extra. Give to your family members and relatives in need—don’t humiliate them by making them ask you first. Give to a neighbor in financial distress. Even when tipping someone, let it be a reflection of the One that you are representing in your Christian walk. Our God is a generous God—may you become generous also. Develop a "love for giving." Paul tells us in Acts 20:35b to:

Remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how He said, IT IS MORE BLESSED TO GIVE THAN TO RECEIVE




GIVING IS VOLUNTARY

The New Testament teachings on giving are unpretentiously simplistic involving the heart and not some law:

"…freely ye have received, freely give" (Matt. 10:8b).

"Give to him that asks you, and from him that would borrow of you turn not thou away" (Matt. 5:42).

"The churches in Macedonia and Achaia, you see, have thought it a good thing to make a contribution towards the poor Christians in Jerusalem. They have decided to do this, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the gentiles have had a share in the Jews’ spiritual good things it is only fair that they should look after the Jews as far as the good things of this world are concerned" (Rom. 15:26-27, J. B. Phillips Translation).

"Give and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over…" (Luke 6:38).

"I have showed you all things, how that so laboring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how He said, It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35).

"But this I say, He which sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity [Gk: ‘compulsion’ as in a commanded law]: for God loves a cheerful giver" (II Cor. 9:6-7).

Follow these admonitions on giving and you will be blessed of God.

There is one more very important Scripture that should go in this group and that is I Tim. 5:8,

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own household, he has denied the faith, and worse than an infidel."

Here is also a portion of Ray's response to an e-mail in regard to physical vs. spiritual;


If you are IN CHRIST, then CHRIST IS IN YOU, and Christ will live a NEW LIFE IN YOU THROUGH THE SPIRIT OF GOD, and not through the carnal minded flesh of man.

THERE IS NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, THAT ONE CAN DO 'PHYSICALLY' TO GET SAVED 'SPIRITUALLY'!!

But what about all these 'physical things' of circumcision and baptism? Do we not have to be circumcised and baptized? YES WE DO! ABSOLUTELY. And here is how it is to be done:

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy [theological doctrines] and vain DECEIT, after the TRADITION OF MEN, after the RUDIMENTS OF THE WORLD, and not AFTER CHRIST. For IN HIM dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.  And YOU ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the Head of all principality and power: In Whom also ye ARE CIRCUMCISED [how so?] with the circumcision made WITHOUT HANDS [or knives], in putting off the BODY OF THE SINS OF THE FLESH by the CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST: [notice, no period...] Buried WITH HIM [in 'WATER baptism?' No...] in baptism [how so? same way! 'WITHOUT HANDS; WITHOUT WATER, 'in putting off the body of the SINS OF THE FLESH by the BAPTISM OF CHRIST--there is but 'ONE BAPTISM,' Eph. 4:5!], wherein also you are risen WITH HIM through the faith of the operation of God Who has raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the UNcircumcision of your flesh, has He quickened together WITH HIM, having forgiven you ALL TRESPASSES

... Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon or of the sabbath days: Which are a SHADOW of things to come, but the body [the SUBSTANCE, the REALITY OF THE SHADOW, the BODY OF CHRIST WHICH WAS CASTING THE SHADOW] is of [or belongs to] CHRIST" (Col. 2:8-13 & 16-17)!!!

Seek to become mature in His Spirit, to grow in Him and decrease in self, the fruits of the Spirit will then be manifested by you through Him. The most godlike fruit is that of charity.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe





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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Sharing ones possession
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2006, 12:52:26 AM »

Hi Steve,

This is of course a very good question and one that demands a good amount of soul searching. There have been some wonderful scripture posted in response to your question so I am going to come in from a different angle.

What is it the you feel compelled to do and why? Do you feel (know) that God wants you to give up everything and trust him to provide for your needs; or is it that you feel that you "should" and if you don't then you are somehow falling short. Perhaps it's a feeling based on years of church doctrine.

I heard much the same growing up, the preacher lived in a better house than we, he drove a better car and didn't work a job; God sure provided for him, NOT!  It was us, the workers who instead of giving to God, gave to the preachers pockets. Oh this isn't so bad, it's the standing at the pulpit every Sunday, espousing on how we are slipping into sin because the collection last week was pitiful. Clearly, he and the church forgot the parable of the poor woman.

Mar 12:42, 44 
And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called [unto him] his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all [they] did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, [even] all her living.

God will provide and surely what he gives we should share.

The woman gave but very little for it was all she had; we can be certain that God was looking out for her because her faith was strong. I can be very honest with you, I am caught up in the rat race of a big city, along with a good home, mortgage, etc. I dream of a slower lifestlye and peaceful days, as if it is something that is impossible to attain. Would I like to sell or give it all away? You bet, but would I? No, because of my wife and family; I have to care for them and God agrees:

I Tim. 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own household, he has denied the faith, and worse than an infidel.

But even this is not the entire truth, because I know God does not want me to become so consumed by my commitments and work that their is no room for anything else. In doing so, I become no more than those who throw money into the treasury. (Mar 12:42, 44) Sure, I am providing, but am I truly giving. The answer is no. :(

Rather, I have became a slave to the dollar.

1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


Just how strong is my faith if I worry incessantly over bills, new cars, clothes, entertainment, etc. This is crazy, because God has given me everything I could ever dreamed of having and that's the ability to make do and enjoy life. I have only just learned that. :) Suddenly, my life is ever so much slower; my time with my family is wonderful, I am getting so much more done, and even have to time to ride 50+ miles a week on my bicycle.

I have come to know that it is impossible to give to God material substances, money being one of them. What is money but an inanimate object. Giving is more than giving away money. Giving, is truly giving of yourself and it this that God truly wants to see. We can give in so many ways that help in ways we may never imagine. Remember that poor woman who gave money of little value, and Jesus said she gave all she had to give

What do we have to give? The list in endless: a smile, a few words of encouragement, a thank you. A cup of coffee to a co-worker because they don't have time to get one themselves. A helping hand, the offer of a helping hand, donations to trusted charities, giving away unused items, clothes, etc. Volunteering for community functions and even mentoring. Giving of ourselves in such a manner allows us to receive rewards otherwise missed.

Friendships, laughter, smiles, fellowship good times and fond memories, for it is times such as these that have truly turned my life around. Of course I still have concerns, but I sleep at night now. :)

Goodness knows my wife and I are always scrapping the bottom of the money barrel, but life is good and I have never been happier.

God is wonderful,

Well sorry for rambling and I truly hope that someone can get something out od this.

Prayers to you Steve.

Darren





« Last Edit: October 06, 2006, 09:20:59 AM by YellowStone »
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mongoose

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Re: Sharing ones possession
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2006, 01:24:11 PM »

Hi Steve,
  I have wondered about this from time to time myself.  And I've been praying about it.  As Joe said, we're scattered for a reason and we are admonished to take care of our families and all.  I keep coming back to Zaccarahia..(can't spell..) who gave away half his possessions and Jesus said that surely salvation had come to his household.  He still had half of all the wealth he did have before.  I think we aren't supposed to be attached to our material possessions or to money (which I too worry about a lot...definitely a lot more than I should  :-[).  I try to give to people as I can, and I like the idea Darren that God is as interested in what we give of ourselves as what we give of our possessions.  But I think that if I were to be allowed to give everything away and live as a pauper, I would be proud about it.  So God is keeping these things around me and teaching me to not put value on them, just on Him alone, but to be able to live with the temptation of them being around to help keep me humble.  Does that make any sense?  Just my two cents...

mongoose
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