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[keys2heaven]

First of all, let me say what an eye-opening experience this has been. I have been reading most of Ray's extensive teachings and have not been so excited about the word of God in a very long time.

Yes, having been in and out of church for most of my adult life, some of the teachings played a number on my carnal mindset.

My family and I currently attend a Nazarene chuch. I see that there are many here that have been asked to leave, felt uncomfortable after discussing these teachings with other members or clergy and left, or just decided to leave on their own. I must say that I am struggling with this very thing but have yet to make a decision to leave.

On Sunday night we have what we call "small groups" (a.k.a. bible study, current event discussion as related to scripture). Last night's meeting was all about the recent school shootings and whether or not it was o.k. to question God and the ever-famous "Why does God allow evil to happen".

Naturally, the discussion became one of free will. I'm about halfway through the series that Ray teaches on the myth of free will. You should have seen the faces in the room when I brought up that God caused these situations to happen and to say anything else would be an acknowledgement that God is not in control of His creation and that God Himself is fallible. The group leader, a friend of mine, then went in to a discussion of the Garden of Eden and the choice we made back there and how it was the wrong choice. I submitted to the group that it wasn't the wrong choice but the only choice that could have been made because God caused all of the events to orchestrate in such fashion for Eve to make that choice. Really, I wish Ray could have been there in the room to explain it but I'm sure that we'd need to have class for a week!

Anyone been in a situation where a discussion came up and you just felt a burning sensation inside prompting you to speak up becasue you knew what was being taught was 100% wrong. Man, I had it last night.

Needless to say, I need to study more and get the Word of God into my heart so that I can show where God's word says that He is the one in control and nothing happens without Him.

Anyway, my name is Mike, and I am happy to be here.

Peace.

[Kat]

Hi Mike,

Good to have you here at the forum.
I see your off to a good start, with sharing the Truth at your church.
You much know they will not put up with your 'heresy' for very long.
But now that you have revealed what you know,
you have to say what God leads you to say, if asked ( 1Peter 3:15).
So the decision to leave may not be totally in your hands 
I will pray for God to give you strength and courage in whatever lies ahead.
The main scripture to show God's in controll,

Eph 1:11  In Him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

The forum is here and you can depend on it for the fellowship you will desire.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Patrick]

Welcome to the forum, Mike.
I believe God dragged me out of Babylon, it was not a decision I made.
I continued going to church after God opened up my eyes & ears to the truth, and then one day I could not get out of that place fast enough. I have not looked back.

Yes, I have been in many situations that you speak of. But, only on a couple of occasions have I had the "burning sensation" to speak up.
I'm still studying myself and have learned that (most of the time) when these situations occur, the other person will want to argue. After God led me to Bible-Truths, I wanted to debate/argue with anyone and I believe He orchestrated these types of situations to teach me not to debate/argue. Trust me, I had my tail handed to me on several occasions.
Now I just bite my lip and strive for the time when people will see Christ in me and ask. I feel it's the stage God has me at this time. I know that when the time comes and God wants me to speak up, I will not have any control and the words will be His. In the meantime; study/pray, study/pray, study/pray.

[bobbys43]

Welcome Mike and it is great to have you here.

 Now concerning the church you attend. You keep sharing the truth with those people and it will not be long before you will be looked down upon,accused of heresy and then they will throw you out of the temple.

 Good for you that you stood up for the truth and you never know my friend God may be using you to reveal this wonderful truth of His to someone else.

 God started dragging me out a few years ago before he revealed His truths to me. I have not been back since.

 great to have you here my new friend,

 bobby(bob)

[Dennis Vogel]

I've often had the desire but God would tie my tongue. There may be one other person in your church God is speaking to through you.

Dennis

[hillsbororiver]

Welcome to the Forum Mike,

I am familiar with the desire to "understand it all" now, just like mining for precious stones, gold or any earthly treasure searching for this spiritual treasure will  take dedication, patience, and time. Trust in Him as you open His Word, when reading the articles on Bible Truths and fellowshipping here, He will bless you abundantly.

Do not try to run before you learn to walk (like I did) and stumble along the way with debate and strife, many of us rushed out to share these wonderful Truths of our Lord before we were ready and before He called us to witness, with disasterous results, one of our favorite verses in regard to this is;


1Pe 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:



Remember this and you will know when the time is right.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[ned]

Hi Mike,
Welcome to our forum.

When God opened my eyes, I too wanted to share with others from my church, and there was one girl in particular who fought me tooth and nail on what I had been revealed.
God had not lifted the blinders off her eyes. I could speak until I was blue in the face, with scripture to boot, but I couldn't make this blind person see no matter how hard I tried.
Now I have patience and empathy toward this girl, I know her current position is where God has her.
All is of God. Only He can make a blind person see. I'm sure that's why Jesus healed so many blind people when he walked the earth.
Always follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Looking forward to fellowshipping,
Marie

[keys2heaven]

Thank you all for the encouragement. I sent a link for part one of the free will myth exposed teachings to several folks that are in our small group. I pray that they at least read the first part in its entirety.

I certainly do not want to get into a debate on things that are not, as of yet, second nature to my spirit. These teachings are so contrary to popular opinion, but that's what I find most intriguing. I used to work with an individual who always professed that you didn't need to go to church to be a Christian. I remember thinking that she was going to hell. Can you believe it!

I wasn't in church for a period of time. Lets just say that my behavior was less than Christ-like and I needed to step back. No, I wasn't asked to leave, but I was removed from all worship opportunities. I was told I had to be restored, but I refused and left because of embarassment and humiliation.

We started going to our present church because as a family we had hit financial bottom as well as emotional bottom. Friends of ours invited us (incidently, they now attend an AOG church) and we've been there ever since. But, I have not truly felt God's presence as I did in times past at my former church (non-denominational pentacostal). I know that there are issues with both doctrines, but wonder why I felt closer to God back then than I do now. Maybe I haven't learned to trust God again. I hope and pray that isn't the case.

From the time I was little, I've felt a desire to help people and have always believed that is part of my misison on Earth. I believe we are all here for a reason. Makes sense if God is working out his plan.

I like the notion of a hands on God, one that does care and is in control all the time. Why do so many of us want to put God in a box, limit His ability to be God and pretend that God is hands off, except when we screw up? My wife told me last night that she was always told that God shows us two paths and we have to decide which one to take. We chose to do good or bad. Huh? So, God doesn't know which path we will take? When I take a step back, I can't believe how silly the notion of having a "free will" actually sounds. I'm not making fun of my wife. We had a discussion about this last night and she sorta agrees with what Ray shows in his study. For my wife, she just wants to know what the voice of God sounds like. No, not an audible voice, but how do you know when God is speaking to you about something. How do you KNOW that it is God?

I like Ray's comment "God isn't running a damage control operation from Heaven" but yet, that's precisely what we are led to believe. I could get cynical here but resist the urge to.

Anyway, I love our friends at our church. We do have great fellowship together and pray that my revealing what I've learned here doesn't cause dissension. I'm afraid of losing our friends. I'm not really afraid of upsetting the apple cart. I figure if I am led to speak, then I will be placed in the situation under the right circumstances to speak. I'm not going to try and change anyone's opinion overnight, nor will I hound them about what I now know. I'll let the Holy Spirit (God) work it out.

Thanks again and God bless.

Mike

[mongoose]

Hi Mike,

Welcome to the forum. 

I used to work with an individual who always professed that you didn't need to go to church to be a Christian. I remember thinking that she was going to hell. Can you believe it!

Yep, I can believe it.  Amazing the lies we are taught to believe huh?  I quit going to church, oh, about 8 years ago.  Apparently my parents have been waiting the whole time for me to settle down and go back.  And since I'm not doing it they're getting more and more convinced that I'm going to hell I think.  They haven't said anything yet but are starting the whole mentioning going to church and sighing thing.  It's only a matter of time.

I know that there are issues with both doctrines, but wonder why I felt closer to God back then than I do now. Maybe I haven't learned to trust God again. I hope and pray that isn't the case.

These feelings of closeness to God seem to come and go for most of us it seems.  One thing to remember...not feeling close to God isn't the same thing as not being close to God.  Rest assured, this too is for your good and to teach you, and He is never far away.  My trust in God comes and goes too.  And it is a gift from God.  Keep seeking Him and turning to Him.  He promises that you will find Him and He always keeps His promises.

I like Ray's comment "God isn't running a damage control operation from Heaven" but yet, that's precisely what we are led to believe.

   That is one of my favorite quotes too.  Isn't it amazing the difference between what is taught and what is really true?  Absolutely amazing the contradictions that are said to be truth.  Thank God that He is opening your eyes.  It is wonderful.

Thanks for sharing your testimonies with us.  Looking forward to more posts.

Much love in Christ,

mongoose

[gmik]

Mike Welcome to the fellowship of believers cybernet style!

I was in a non denominational pentecostaL/Charismatic/Faith(blah, blah, blah)World Outreach Ministires (Yikes).  I did "feel" closer to God then what with all the constant excitement going on-laying on of hands, falling under the power,clubs, groups, socials,concerts ....I was excited because....I thought Jesus was a mini-santa claus-my prayers were always ASKING for things. I was always looking for that spiritual high-if I didn't get it, it was because the choir didn't give us enough "praise" time, or whatever.

Since I "stumbled" on Ray's site my life has changed 180.  Those "feelings" fade but the Truth is with you all the time.  It took several months before I could leave the church. _-It is a big mega-church so no one noticed really and I didn't have to say or defend anything to anybody. I have tried sharing with some but with disastrous results-mostly cuz i didn't know what I was talking about!!  So now, I study from the Concordant & E sword, I read & re read Ray's material, and I fellowship here.  Fortunately, my husband is in total agreement, so we can fellowship together.

Now, I don't usually ask for things in prayer but ask to accept & want God's Will in my life.
Ray's article on witnessing really helped relieve my misplaced guilt so unless someone is sincerely interested I don't bring anything up.  But I am just a baby learning and this forum is a wonderful place to learn.

Sorry so long, don't know what got into me

gena