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[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Everyone

I was reading Ray’s Lake of Fire Part 15-C when lightening struck! Ray wrote:

“In whom THE GOD OF THIS WORLD has blinded the minds of them which believe…(just ask yourselves if you really believe all of the Scriptures that I am presenting in this paper?…)…believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the Image of God, should shine unto them” (2 Cor 4:4)

For a few years now,  I have been aware of how much evil I was seeing and I did not want to see it. Have you ever felt this way? The more I saw the more I did not want to see and it was distressing to me especially as Christ says….Matt 24;6 And you will hear of wars and rumours of wars; see that you are not frightened or troubled, for this must take place, for the end is not yet.”……so, Yes Sure!….I know NOT to be troubled, but I was…..I KNOW not to be frightened, but I have be unnerved….!

Gradually I began experiencing that  I preferred not to watch or be aware of any bad news so I stopped watching the TV news. Has this ever happened to you? But… Did that stop me from hearing about 9.11….No!….I found that I moved further away from watching anything associated with violence, immorality and crime that is so part of Hollywood entertainment. ..but that did not help. The darkness got thicker and the evil I was seeing became more and more and more…..Yes sure….be not troubled but I was troubled! Then, like I said, Gods lightening struck as I re-read the above verse in Rays LOF especially appreciating how he presented it …”In whom THE GOD OF THIS WORLD has blinded the minds of them which believe………of them which believe…..OF THEM WHICH BELIEVE!  HEY! I BELIEVE!….THEN..…..I REALIZED that seeing the darkness and knowing it is of Satan is part of SEEING! It is part of not being BLIND! NOT believing that SATAN  IS THE GOD OF THIS WORLD is BLINDNESS! …and trying to run, escape, not look just showed how poor my faith has been in a Sovereign God. This darkness and evil in the world was ruling, intimidating and threatening me….I ran from the dark because it upset me. The dark made me fearful and anxious and now GOD makes me see, that I see. This has been a major TURN AROUND AND blessing for me!

I had been going around and around the mountain, like the Hebrew children did for 40 years even though their destination was some two weeks away. I was going around and around the walls of Jericho, dodging the shadows of the walls of evil against me…thinking I understood, feeling concerned with the darkness and evil and then THANKS TO GOD …the walls of my self-stylised understanding came down! Since this revelation has come to me I CAN FACE EVIL with a different understanding…and it is such a relief!…I was in bondage for years on this one!….and all this goes to show is that I was not believing in the Sovereignty of God….I was believing in the sovereignty of evil……………and now by Gods Grace I am BEGINNING to believe GOD!…..and it is wonderful!.

Whats your story?

Arcturus

[mongoose]

Arcturus,
   I rarely, if ever, watch the news and only watch TV a bit...there are a few shows I watch.  The news breaks my heart and makes me cry, and it is so biased.  They only tell about the bad stuff.  Yes, there is evil and pain and suffering in the world.  But that is not all there is.  I am happier not seeing the news every day and not depressed like I was.  I still hear about the major happenings through other people but they don't seem to blow it all out of proportion as much.

I asked God about 10 years ago to let me see the world as it was.  It was arrogance and pride that made me say that...like, whatever bad there is, I can take it.  And He answered my prayer I think.  But along with the bad, He showed me the good...and the pain and suffering and lonliness and fear behind the actions of people who do bad things.  That took the wind out of my sails and has made me consider others feelings more and to be more patient and loving towards people who hurt me and others.  And has caused me to forgive things I thought I never could.  It's hard to stay mad at someone when you know they are lashing out because of pain and that they too, will be restored to God and healed one day.

So, yes, there is evil and pain and suffering in the world.  And it still makes me sad.  I know all that is happening is part of God's plan...but I would be lying if I said I understood or always accepted that.  Sometimes I hate it a whole lot...and pray for understanding.  But, all the bad that has happened in my own life...for that I am very grateful.  And, in addition to the evil and darkness there is also a lot of good and light in the world I think.  There is a poem I like that ends: "With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it still is a beautiful world."  And with all the evil and pain and suffering, God has given us light and love and beauty and peace.

Much love in Christ,

mongoose

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Mongoose

It is wonderful how God is moulding you into patience, long-suffering and forgiveness.

The world is Gods and the Kingdoms of the world are Satan's....That is how I understand this....

What would you say are the Kingdoms?....Religion, Politics, Banking, Education, Law and so called Order, Health ?...anyone?

Arcturus

[gmik]

Here is something I struggle with.

Now that we believe in everyone eventually being saved, we use the reasonings & scriptures to point out that a loving God wouldn't do such an awful thing as send people to hell.

But then we have to explain everything is God's will, so He does the Holocaust, plagues, wars, cancers etc. That doesn't seem like a loving God.
 

How do we reconcile the 2 views?

Gena

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Gena

I am quoting Ray from Lake of Fire part 3...

"..........I do not want any one to draw the erroneous conclusion that since we must go through a plethora of trials, tribulations, suffering, and persecution, that all God is interested in is putting us through a living hell. This is not the case at all. Each and every trial and persecdution that comes upon us is designed to MAKE US SPIRITUALLY STRONG. And with spiritual strenght comes PEACE, FULFILLMENT, TRUE HAPPINESS AND JOY.

How would you like to be "supernaturely blest"  "well off"  "fortunate" and  "happy" for the rest of your life? Well believe it or not, going through all the trials and tribulations and persecutions that Christ outlined in the Scriptures for all those who would become His followers, is exactly how all of these good things can become yours!......unquote

So you see Gena, God is Love and Hell is a pagan idea used to empower man and bring him into deeper delusion....fear...bondage and confusion....

 I understand that God uses Satan to bring the plagues, wars etc.. God has made Satan  the GOD OF THIS WORLD...

Also we are not saved from judgment....we all need purification....only Christ is pure.....thats why we need HIM. We can not get pure on our own steam.....or through our own understanding....

THis is what I have understood so far and it has helped me to see that God is Love, Spirit, Truth and Sovereign

Arcturus

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi again Gena

I should have written rather....Hell is a pagan idea used to empower RELIGION to LEAD MANKIND  into deeper delusion..fear...bondage and confusion....!

That would have been more correct!....

And in the words of 3 John..."Peace be to you!"

Arcturus

[mongoose]

Gena,
  I used to wonder about that a lot too.  If God is so good and there is no hell, why does He make some people go through such bad stuff here?  And once I would've included myself in that...although dont' get me wrong, certainally not like the holocaust and I know that there are a lot of people who have had things a lot worse!  Then I realized I was grateful for all the things I've felt, for every bit of pain and suffering...I was thinking of what an uncompassionate, braty, unloving, selfish little beast I would be if I didn't know what it was to hurt and fear and be lonely. 

Suffering in this life is nothing compared to what they teach of suffering for all eternity.  Everything that happens in this life is temporary (including death) and somehow necessary to teach us to love and know God.  That said, some things are harder than others to understand...but it is all for our education and eventually even these things will make perfect sense to us.  At the very least, we learn what people will do to each other if given the chance.  That alone shows us how carnal and helpless we are to do good...and how much we need God.  We develop strength and compassion and character and learn that we need God for everything when we suffer...and when we see others suffer.  Ray said somewhere I think something along the lines of what virtues are there that aren't developed through hardship and trials?  I can't think of any.

Hope this helps.  It's hard to watch the news or be in the world and see these things happening isn't it?  My heart breaks every time...and yet a broken heart is God's greatest way of teaching and leading us.  And He always heals it again and again.  In our weakness, He is strong.

Love in Christ,

mongoose

[angie]

Hi Mongoose,

The words you quoted were from  'desiderata'. I had an A1 sized poster of it on my lounge wall for about 14 years before ever beginning to consciously seek God. Everyone who came into my house read it, and they all thought the world would be a much nicer place if people really would think and act that way. It taught me that some of even the most vindictive and vengeful of people would prefer another way of living. I think that God has indeed, written his name on all our hearts, even thought we are not all aware of it, and even on those whose hearts refute God exists. It brought to mind the words,

Rom: 22 'For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.

Desiderata may not be scriptural words but some of the the ideas behind them, I think, are a step in the right direction. I have reproduced it here for anyone who hasn't read it.

Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and haste
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly and listen to others,
even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is.
Many persons strive for high ideals
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself.
Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disappointment
it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars.
You have a right to be here.
And whether it is clear to you or not,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive him to be,
and whatever your labours and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham and drudgery and broken dreams
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

Angie
x

[mongoose]

Yep Angie.  I wasn't sure if it was ok to post it.  You're a lot braver than I am.  I have that, and a poem by Ralph Waldo Emerson hung up both at work and at home.  Also not a scriptural one but one that I think has a lot of good points nonetheless.  It helps me keep a good perspective on things.

mongoose

[joyful1]

Mongoose and Angie--thanks for posting those words! Since begining our study of Ray's material...we frequently use the phrase; "no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should," whenever anything weird or unusual happens around our house! LOL!  It brings back great memories of my teen years--when the struggle for finding the truth had only begun! thanks again! joyful1

[ned]

I remember, while I was still in the "church system" reading this verse,

Joh 12:40
(CEV)  "The Lord has blinded the eyes of the people, and he has made the people stubborn. He did this so that they could not see or understand, and so that they would not turn to the Lord and be healed."

and then this verse,

2Co 4:4
(CEV)  The god who rules this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers. They cannot see the light, which is the good news about our glorious Christ, who shows what God is like.

And wondering why these verses show that God blinds eyes and Satan does too? How could they both? I almost doubted I was reading it. 
Now, (by the grace of God) I see it is because God uses Satan for this very purpose.  How could I ever doubt who was in control?

Love,
Marie
(A big thank you to God!)

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Marie

And here's more....Pharaoh did not harden his own heart to resist God's will...."Let my people go"... God hardened it!

Ex 9:12 "But THE LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, making it strong and obstinate...." (Ref LOF part 15)

Arcturus

[joyful1]

Marie-- so true! I had remembered those verses from the LOF series, but didn't recall reading them side by side like that....really makes the point clear:  God is in control!

[hughbee40]

For most of my life I have never felt comfortable in a christian church.  For many years I believed it was because I was a filthy sinner who hadn't truly accepted Jesus Christ into my heart.  Everytime I would go to church, I felt like an outsider looking in.  I couldn't feel that "feeling" they all seemed to have.  For a long time I thought it was because I hadn't made any attempt to turn my life from sinful behaviour.  I even allowed some Mormon missionaries into my home and actually was baptized into the faith.  However, I felt even more uncomfortable there than when I was in a traditional christian church.  I then began to deeply study the differences between the various christian faiths and was dumbfounded at the fundamental differences.  One believed in works yet another believed that it was by faith only that led to salvation yet, by their by-laws and very judgemental attitudes, they were still trying to "buy" their way into heaven.  The one doctrine that made no sense to me was the Ten Commandments.  As I understood, that was the "law".  Yet, in the New Testament, it said that if you were under the law then you would be judged by the law.  If you had faith in Jesus Christ, you were no longer under the law, but under grace.  Jesus preached only two commandments that I could see.  To love God with all of your heart and to love others as He had loved them.  Quite a challenge if you think about it.  First to love God with all of your heart and to completely trust Him became for me very difficult.  I still blamed Him for two failed businesses among many other things.  but, over the years I began to see and feel gratitude for the many blessings He had given me and how the failures had made me a better, less selfish person.  I have always felt great compassion for my fellow man with the exception of child abusers, politicians and car salesmen.  However, as I have learned (and still continue to do so) to love God with all of my heart, I have began to find compassion for those people also.  After going through yet another massive failure in my life, I fasted for five days shaking my fists at God the entire time.  I was ready to starve myself unless He showed me something significant that would make my pursuit of His truths make sense.  During that time I heard Him say to me (in my heart) "stop trying to change yourself to please Me!  I have made you exactly as I want you and over time I, and I alone will perfect you".  I began to stop, look and listen.  To be grateful for the simple blessings of daily life and saw God as very compassionate and thoughtful.  I began to feel worthy of His love and that He knew me personally.  It was then that He led me to L. Ray's website and all of those answers he had given me over the years were affirmed.  He had given me the double witness I had been seeking.  This is my story in a very brief nutshell and it would take hours and hours to write down everything of spiritual significance that has happened in my life.  I apologize to all who read this for the run-on nature of my writing and lack of syntax yet am sure you will all forgive me (lol).  I look forward to reading the stories of others in this forum and also to be an active participant in the future.

Yours in Christ
Hughbee40 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello and welcome hughbee-40 on your first post.....It is wonderful to have you here....

it is like God has brought you past the veil!  I had to get kicked hard before God gently showed me Bible Truths...I was expelled by the Pastor and then Struck out by the whole Church just recently....I see you expressed your frustration in a fast with fists! God can make us look so silly after He  recovers us from feeling so hurt!....Then He tells us more!...

After reading your post my thoughts returned to Ray's.."The beast is You" article that is part of his Lake of Fire series that is amaizing! I only thought of this because you wrote "I began to feel worthy of His love"...so that was my cue to recall and to contemplate at a deeper level, just how much God really does REALLY and FOR REAL really DOES love us  ...  I know God has got you here and that He will delight your weary heart as only He can...Enjoy

Arcturus

[gmik]

Welcome Hughbee, to our forum.  Great testimony. I do get a kick out of how the Lord drags people to Ray's site. This is a great little corner of the universe!

gena

[ned]

Hi Hughbee.
Welcome to our forum. I pray that you would find solid fellowship here and God would continue to be the #1 focus and reason for all who participate!
I enjoyed reading your testimony.
God certainly draws His people in His time.
I look forward to hearing more from you,
Love in Christ,
Marie