14 books

[Phazel]

I was reading on Rays site in the first part of the lake of fire series and read about the 14 book retained by the catholics and dropped by christians.  (learn something new everyday)

Are these 14 books worthy of reading to get more understanding?

[gmik]

Is that the apocrapha(don't know how to spell it).

I think I have read in some of rays e mails that supposed "books" outside the bible are not profitable.  I know some on the forum have read them.  I think you can find them online.  With bible study, reading Ray's material, and being on the forum I don't have much time for those other books.

I have looked on "early christian writings" and "early church history" sites.  I think those are pretty interesting. What the early christians went thru makes me guilty when I whine about something!

gena

[SandyFla]

You can read them for more understanding, yes, but I wouldn't take them as Gospel truth. Especially when they contradict Scripture.

Sandy

[hillsbororiver]

I agree with Gena and Sandy as the Apocrypha were books written well after the time period they claim to originate from. There are many things in these books that most certainly contradict scripture, such as;

2 Maccabees
Chapter 14

39
Nicanor, to show his detestation of the Jews, sent more than five hundred soldiers to arrest him.
40
He thought that by arresting such a man he would deal the Jews a hard blow.
41
But when these troops, on the point of capturing the tower, were forcing the outer gate and calling for fire to set the door ablaze, Razis, now caught on all sides, turned his sword against himself,
42
preferring to die nobly rather than fall into the hands of vile men and suffer outrages unworthy of his noble birth.
43
In the excitement of the struggle he failed to strike exactly. So while the troops rushed in through the doors, he gallantly ran up to the top of the wall and with manly courage threw himself down into the crowd.
44
But as they quickly drew back and left an opening, he fell into the middle of the empty space.
45
Still breathing, and inflamed with anger, he got up and ran through the crowd, with blood gushing from his frightful wounds.
46
Then, standing on a steep rock, as he lost the last of his blood, he tore out his entrails and flung them with both hands into the crowd, calling upon the Lord of life and of spirit to give these back to him again. Such was the manner of his death.

Where else do we see suicide as being commendable?

2 Maccabees
Chapter 12

43
He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view;
44
for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.
45
But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
46
Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.

Collecting money to be used to make "atonement" for the sins of the dead? Doesn't scripture teach us that Christ's sacrifice on the cross was sufficient payment enough?

Tobit
Chapter 12

9
for almsgiving saves one from death and expiates every sin. Those who regularly give alms shall enjoy a full life;

Giving "alms" takes away sin?

Again from Tobit Chapter 12;

12
5 I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayer before the Glory of the Lord; and I did the same thing when you used to bury the dead.
13
When you did not hesitate to get up and leave your dinner in order to go and bury the dead,
14
6 I was sent to put you to the test. At the same time, however, God commissioned me to heal you and your daughter-in-law Sarah.
15
I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who enter and serve before the Glory of the Lord."

This angel Raphael had to read the prayer to the Lord, can we get a 2nd (not from the Apocrypha please) witness to this?


Baruch
Chapter3

3 And he showed me within the heaven a plain; and there were men dwelling thereon, with the faces of oxen

4 and the horns of stags, and the feet of goats, and the haunches of lambs. And I Baruch asked the angel, Make known to me, I pray thee, what is the thickness of the heaven in which we journeyed,

5 or what is its extent, or what is the plain, in order that I may also tell the sons of men? And the angel whose name is Phanuel said to me: This door which thou seest is the door of heaven, and as great as is the distance from earth to heaven, so great also is its thickness; and again as great as is the distance (from North to South, so great) is the length of the plain which thou didst see. And again the angel of the powers said to me, Come, and I will show thee greater mysteries.

6 But, I said, I pray thee show me what are these men. And he said to me,

7These are they who built the tower of strife against God, and the Lord banished them.


This angel (Phanuel) is allowing Baruch to "pray" to him as he shows what is going on with those who built the tower of Babel;

These books are full of things such as these examples, studying them to me is not the route to understanding, but to look at out of curiousity is another thing altogether.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[gmik]

Great Joe.  Thanks!

gena