> General Discussions
Great White Throne Judgment
Kat:
Hi Kennymac,
I agree with what you were saying up until the last part.
--- Quote --- Nowhere does it tell us that no one in the general resurrection could be found in that Book. Nor does it anywhere imply that everyone raised at this time should be cast into the lake of fire.
We can only conclude, then, that in the general resurrection at the end of the thousand-year Tabernacles Age the angel will blow BOTH trumpets. This will summon the entire congregation (Church) from the grave--except for the rulers, of course, who had been summoned a thousand years earlier. The Church as a whole, then, will be raised from the dead at the end of the thousand years along with all the unbelievers. Here the unbelievers will be judged by the "lake of fire," while the congregation of non-ruling believers will receive life (immortality). Church just doesn't see this.
--- End quote ---
I'll just let Ray's article explain who will be judged in the lake of fire.
Excerpts are taken from Ray's Lake of Fire article 12 --------------------------
http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html
The whore is a great church, and it sits on a wild beast (a great political system), and John, "…saw a wild beast rise up OUT OF THE SEA (Rev. 13:1). This beast does not rise up out of one particular sea, that is one particular nation or people or multitude or tongue, but out of ALL OF THEM.
"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives THE WHOLE WORLD…" (Rev. 12:5).
And the waters on which the whore sits are called, "…peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." In other words, the whore sits upon ALL THE SEA; ALL THE PEOPLES AND MULTITUDES AND LANGUAGES AND NATIONS OF THE ENTIRE EARTH! And she RIDES the wild beast that came up out of this same great and vast sea of humanity.
Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!
THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!
The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).
And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat
orion77:
I think the book of Revelations is more of a spiritual book of the revealing of Christ to each believer, each in his own time. Christ now reigns in His elect during each generation since the resurrection. There has always been a few who have Christ in them.
(2Co 6:16 LITV) And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are a temple of the living God, even as God said, "I will" dwell in them and "walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Lev. 26:12; Ezek. 37:27
His kingdom is within and is now, for those with Christ Spirit in them. For the elect sakes, having being put to death in His baptism and spiritually risen, now live for Christ. He reigns as king of kings in our hearts and spirit.
The resurrection is Jesus Christ. I think that word is used spiritually also, rising from death to life, is talking about a spiritual awakening, that happens to those with Christ in them, and are obedient, moving from faith to faith. The thousand year reign, is symbolic for the elect through history, that have God ruling in the temple. His kingdom is not of this world,
(Joh 17:3 LITV) And this is everlasting life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
(Joh 17:11 LITV) And no longer am I in the world, yet these are in the world; and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, those whom You gave to Me, that they may be one as We are.
(Joh 17:14 LITV) I have given them Your Word, and the world hated them because they are not of the world, as I am not of the world.
(Joh 17:16 LITV) They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
(Joh 17:24 LITV) Father, I desire that those whom You have given Me, that where I am, they may be with Me also, that they may behold My glory which You gave Me, because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
(Joh 17:26 LITV) And I made known to them Your name, and will make it known, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.
(Joh 18:36 LITV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would have fought that I might not be delivered up to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here.
(Joh 18:37 LITV) Then Pilate said to Him, Are You really a king? Jesus answered, You say that I am a king. For this purpose I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I might witness to the Truth. Everyone being of the Truth hears My voice.
Christ returns to each of us individually, in Spirit and power, to witness to our spirit, each in Gods own time. Should we be looking for Christ to come in a physical glory to rule this world? When Jesus came the first time, what were the Jews looking for Christ to accomplish? His words are Spirit, His kingdom is Spirit, and He is Spirit, now.
God bless,
Gary
Kat:
Hi Gary,
I agree with everything you said,
but the elect will also be in the kingdom on the physical earth,
at Christ's return.
I have put together from Ray's material what I feel is proof that we will reign with Christ,
on earth for a symbolic 1000 yrs. at His return.
http://bible-truths.com/lake7.html ---------------------------------
IS THE BOOK OF REVELATION A HISTORY OR A PROPHECY?
The contents of this prophecy started with the vision of John on Patmos two thousand years ago and will continue until the return of Christ and the judgment of the world, and continues even beyond that until the end of the ages spoken of in this prophecy!
The whole book of Revelation is a book about the LIFE OF JESUS written for:
"He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To HIM [any individual member of the churches] that OVERCOMES will I give to eat of the tree of life" (Rev. 2:7).
Is this the sole reward of "HIM that overcomes?" NO!
"He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11).
"To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knows saving he that receives it" (2:17).
"And he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" (2:26).
"He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raimnent; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels" (3:5).
"Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him My new name" (3:11).
"To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in His throne" (3:21).
-http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html-----------------------------
"…and will give him a white stone and in the stone a new name" (Rev.2: 17)
Now we learned that this stone is really a pebble which is a symbol for a ballot, which acquits us of guilt and justifies us, allowing for our admission or entrance into the Kingdom, signed and signified by Jesus Himself. If we continue to overcome, this white signed, ballot stone of entrance into the Kingdom is waiting for us with OUR NAME on it. Remember "as Jesus is, SO ARE WE…" His name is OUR name. If we continue to overcome, we will be given another great reward.
"And he that overcomes and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" (Ver. 26).
"And you shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endures TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED" (Matt. 10:22).
THEN we will be qualified to have "power over the nations." But reigning requires that we be RIGHTEOUS. We must reign the nations with spiritual power, not with military might. Our motives and our love must be PURE.
"Him that overcomes will I make a PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE OF MY GOD" (Ver. 12).
A pillar is a main support in a temple. It speaks of a position of GREAT DISTINGUISHED RESPONSIBILITY at the Spiritual Headquarters of the entirety of the universe in Mt. Zion. But if He is going to give us ALL THAT HE HAS, He expects us to do as He DID and become what He IS.
"To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me on My throne, EVEN AS I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in His throne" (Ver. 21).
We are to overcome "even as" Jesus Christ conquered and overcame. What was it that Jesus Christ "overcame?" John 16:33,
"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world, If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world [which MUST be overcome and conquered!]" (I John 2:15-16).
We are to also "overcome the world" just as Jesus did. Not by ourselves, but by Jesus "Christ IN us, the hope of GLORY." Christ lives His life IN the believer, and in the believer Christ will, "overcome the world," over and over again in each new believer. And then one day, Jesus Christ will say to YOU, "Sit with Me on My throne—We are going to save the Universe together."
We already read in Romans 8 that the whole creation is groaning for the manifestation of Sons and Daughters (saviours) to free this world from its vanity and corruption.
And so, there is ONE church, and all overcomers from that church receive ONE reward, the SAME reward, and that reward is CHRIST and all that His many symbols and names represent, all that He IS ("as He is, so are WE in the world"), and in the Kingdom of God as well. These are the highest and most glorious honors ever to be bestowed upon a man or woman of the human race!
http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html--------------------------
Listen carefully: Generation after generation after generation of believers and saints of God have lived, suffered and been persecuted, and then DIED. This "Day of Christ" or "Day of the Lord" not only did not come in their lifetime, but it will not be a reality to any of them WHEN IT DOES COME, unless something else happens in their lives FIRST!
Long before Jesus can have a COMPANY of manifest SONS and DAUGHTERS of God, there has to be individual begettals by the Holy Spirit of God in chosen individuals in every generation leading up to the coming of the Lord at the end of this age.
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e-mail to Ray
Kingdom
« on: August 01, 2006, 06:48:36 AM »
Ray's reply
Dear Laura:
The "Kingdom of God" is the kingdom that will rule the nations under the Kingship of Jesus Christ, composed of lesser kings, lords, priests, and judges. These kings, lords, priests, and judges, are composed of the ranks of God's Chosen Elect Saints.
Only those worthy of the First resurrection from the death will ever rule with Christ in the Kingdom of God. Those who are judged, purified and saved in the Great White Throne Judgment will be in God's family, but they will never be rulers with Christ.
http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm-------------------------------
Now this is not hard to follow. The above is Paul’s description of how Christ will return for "all who believe." He comes in power and glory and is dealing out vengeance to the ungodly and is being glorified in His saints. This same description of His second coming is found in Rev 11:15-18, "... And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying, ‘The kingdom of this world became our Lord’s and His Christ’s and He shall be reigning for the eons of the eons. Amen!’... Thou hast taken Thy great power and does reign.
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Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Hope I have helped in this.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
gmik:
Good scriptures.
I love the Concordant version calling Revelations "The Unveiling". It is the unveiling of Christ Himself to us. I try to remember that as I read the long verses that are so symbolic and metaphoric. If you read, say, Isaiah, He uses lots of lofty phrases, mysterious, violent, etc. when all he meant was a city was going to be overtaken by enemies.
I am amazed at Christendoms trying to take every single word and make it literal. Yes, a Real dragon will come out of the sea.....
I must admit to being a little fuzzy on the details, and every point seems valid when used with scripture. Is physical Israel in with the believing (non elect) or with the non-believers judgement? Is the LAKE of FIRE people, or God's divining fire. Do people get punished for eons of eons or is this all in a matter of seconds?? Is it a purging in fire to make Hitlers of the world bow their knee or just one glance into the Lamb's eyes? Can we just make Revelations all inward and spiritual only to us, or is there "some hell to pay"? Like I say, fuzzy!
How important is it to know or think we know what happens? Is it more imp. to try to live as Jesus wants us to and to get to know Him? The details He will take care of.
Just some of my thoughts that periodically surface! ::)
Not speaking about anyone here! Good Lord, don't think that for a moment.
Love you all,
gena
Kat:
Hi Gena,
You are right,
if God doesn't lead you to seek out the understanding of something,
it is not important for you to understand it now.
We are all guided by His spirit to learn things as He reveals it.
John 16:12 I have much more to say to you, but right now it would be more than you could understand.
v.13 The Spirit shows what is true and will come and guide you into the full truth. The Spirit doesn't speak on his own. He will tell you only what he has heard from Me, and he will let you know what is going to happen.
v.14 The Spirit will bring glory to Me by taking My message and telling it to you.
Ray has been given much knowledge, and brings much understanding to these confusing scripture.
As he puts it out on his papers,
I am only to happy to seek to understand it.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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