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[ned]

<To quote from Andy>
...As simple as these verses appear, I still am struggling with understanding exactally how this is done....
<end quote>

Luk 9:23  Then Jesus said to all the people: If any of you want to be my followers, you must forget about yourself. You must take up your cross each day and follow me.

and

Mat 10:38  And unless you are willing to take up your cross and come with me, you are not fit to be my disciples.

We are to forget about ourselves. This entails a lot.
Someone buds in front of me in a busy store.  Smile and let them in.
Someone yells at me and embarrases me in front of my family and friends. Bite your tongue.
Your boss treats you unfairly. Do your job to the best of your ability and aim to please your boss's wishes, even if unfair.
Your kids are fighting, driving you up the wall, and you're ready to jump off the nearest bridge (this happened to me before   ). With patience and love, discipline them.
These are but a few things that fight against us on a daily basis. (I'm sure others can come up with an even "better" list, but I'm sure you get my drift.

Eph 6:12  We are not fighting against humans. We are fighting against forces and authorities and against rulers of darkness and powers in the spiritual world.   When we realize this and counter-act the way Jesus wants us to, we deny ourselves, and start to grow for Him.

To deny ourselves, we must forget about our fleshly desires, our wants, our selfishness. It is not about what we want, it is about what Jesus wants for us.

This brings us joy.
J - Jesus
O - others
Y - you.

Jesus always first.

To do this, we need to ask God's help DAILY. It becomes easier as Jesus works in us daily to do His will.
 
My prayer for the forum is we would all work for this, we all face the same challenges each day, let's pray for God's help in this, and really make a difference for Him.

Typing this has helped me. I hope it helps you.

With love in meekness,
Marie

[orion77]

Walking in the Spirit, is not anything we do of ourselves.  It is only by following Christ in Faith.  Here might be something you have not heard of before, but faith is not in knowing that Jesus is the Christ.  Even the demons know He is the Christ.  Even orthodox christianity knows He is the Christ.  Here is what faith is:


(Rom 4:17 LITV)  according as it has been written, "I have appointed you a father of many nations;" before God, whom he believed, the One making the dead live, and calling the things that are not as if they were. Gen. 17:5


Did you catch those words?  'Calling the things that are not as if they were'.  It is not in things seen and done, but by walking in the faith of Christ, even though we can't see, and even though we still sin, we believe in calling things that are not as if they were.  This becomes much easier when we take the yoke of Christ, it is much lighter than the yoke of the law. 

We must enter the Lords sabbath, where He rested from His works, so must we.  It is not what we do, it is all of God.  He shall and deserves all the glory.

Hope this can be of help.

God bless,

Gary

[joyful1]

Gary...these words that you just wrote...very comforting! I'm thinking...this is the way I felt about God way back when I was a kid climbing trees in the back yard to get away from my pesky brother...
I'd hide out in the trees and listen to the wind and hear God in a sort of way that I didn't have time for most of my adult life....its good to be in a place where I can relax and let go and "let God"...speak to me again...and I can listen to Him....in simple faith...in love!
Thanks Gary...for your post!

[ned]

Hi Gary,
I definitely agree with you that God is the (only) one who "wakes us from our sleep", that passes us from "death to life" and He chooses things which are not, to bring to nothing things that are.

Is not faith that doesn't do anything dead? (James 2:26)

We cannot obtain faith on our own, it is a gift from God, lest we should boast. But once we have faith, there is nothing expected or required of us?  I know we start to change because the Holy Spirit in us makes us change, but we consciously don't do anything?

Mat 5:16
(CEV)  Make your light shine, so that others will see the good that you do and will praise your Father in heaven.

I have the feeling in my heart that I need to please God. I am feeling like I should be doing something about it. Yes it's Him in me, no doubt....because I certainly (in times past) didn't always want to please Him, He is changing me..

Please don't give up on me, I value your input Gary (and others) and I just want to learn.

Thanks,
Marie

[Deborah-Leigh]

Yes Gary...

...and to add to what is faith.....Gal 2 : 20....I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God....

That OF...to me is entirely awesome!

Arcturus

[orion77]

(Mat 18:2 LITV)  And having called forward a little child, Jesus set him in their midst.

(Mat 18:3 LITV)  And He said, Truly I say to you, Unless you convert and become as the little children, not at all can you enter into the kingdom of Heaven.

(Mat 18:4 LITV)  Then whoever will humble himself as this little child, this one is the greater in the kingdom of Heaven.

(Mat 18:5 LITV)  And whoever will receive one such little child in My name receives Me.

(Mat 19:14 LITV)  But Jesus said, Allow the little children and do not prevent them to come to Me, for of such is the kingdom of Heaven.

(Luk 1:17 LITV)  And he will go out before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah "to turn the hearts of fathers to their children," and disobedient ones to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people having been prepared for the Lord. Mal. 4:5, 6


Walking in faith as a child brings new discoveries, with the thrill of exploring new places, seeing things not heard of before.


(Jer 31:31 LITV)  Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

(Jer 31:32 LITV)  not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt (which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah).

(Jer 31:33 LITV)  But this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, declares Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

(Isa 52:15 LITV)  So He sprinkles from many nations. At Him kings shall shut their mouths; for they will see that which was not told to them; yea, what they had not heard, they will understand.


I thank God for this forum and its members.  I have learned much here.  Thanks.

God bless,

Gary

[hillsbororiver]

I thank God for this forum and its members.  I have learned much here.  Thanks.

God bless,

Gary

A big AMEN to that Gary,

His Peace to you,

Joe

[Andy_MI]

<To quote from Andy>
...As simple as these verses appear, I still am struggling with understanding exactally how this is done....
<end quote>

Luk 9:23  Then Jesus said to all the people: If any of you want to be my followers, you must forget about yourself. You must take up your cross each day and follow me.

and

Mat 10:38  And unless you are willing to take up your cross and come with me, you are not fit to be my disciples.

We are to forget about ourselves. This entails a lot.
Someone buds in front of me in a busy store.  Smile and let them in.
Someone yells at me and embarrases me in front of my family and friends. Bite your tongue.
Your boss treats you unfairly. Do your job to the best of your ability and aim to please your boss's wishes, even if unfair.
Your kids are fighting, driving you up the wall, and you're ready to jump off the nearest bridge (this happened to me before  ). With patience and love, discipline them.
These are but a few things that fight against us on a daily basis. (I'm sure others can come up with an even "better" list, but I'm sure you get my drift.

Eph 6:12  We are not fighting against humans. We are fighting against forces and authorities and against rulers of darkness and powers in the spiritual world.    When we realize this and counter-act the way Jesus wants us to, we deny ourselves, and start to grow for Him.

To deny ourselves, we must forget about our fleshly desires, our wants, our selfishness. It is not about what we want, it is about what Jesus wants for us.

This brings us joy.
J - Jesus
O - others
Y - you.

Jesus always first.

To do this, we need to ask God's help DAILY. It becomes easier as Jesus works in us daily to do His will.
 
My prayer for the forum is we would all work for this, we all face the same challenges each day, let's pray for God's help in this, and really make a difference for Him.

Typing this has helped me. I hope it helps you.

With love in meekness,
Marie

Thank you Marie for the encouraging words.

Truly the cost of being a disciple for Christ is dying to self. That is not easy or pleasant for me. I do, however want to be Christ's disciple and indeed die to myself. I desire to let Him have all of me. To be a living sacrafice.  It is painfull for me and God is throwing down every idol of my heart. I'm humbled before Him and am waiting on Him.  I desire for Christ to be living His life in me.  This process has been going on most of my life since He started dragging me to Him when I was quite young.  But oh what messes I've made of things through the years.  I thank God that He's faithfull and never gives up, even when I do.

Peace,

Andy

[hillsbororiver]

Hello Andy,

Your experience is written about here and all through the OT and NT;

Psa 51:17  The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Rom 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable3050 service.

G3050
λογικός
logikos
log-ik-os'
From G3056; rational (“logical”): - reasonable, of the word.


It appears that what the Lord desires is that we sacrifice our carnal beastly nature not that we compare ourselves to others that we see as being more "heroic" or more "selfless" such as being flogged for your faith or giving away everything, to live as a hermit, He knows the temptations, guilt, helplessness that is felt when one denies the flesh, when it is done with a contrite heart, this dying to self so He can increase is the sacrifice that pleases Him.

If it is our destiny to be heroic or give up everything, He will make it happen but He will prepare us, and give us the strength to perservere. I don't recall Paul asking or praying for struggles or trials but neither did he complain or indulge in self pity when they confronted him, no, just the opposite.

As Marie stated (I am paraphrasing) it is a bumpy enough road to deny our baser nature in everyday life, if we can deal (through Him) with the things constantly being thrown in our way with a cheerful spirit we truly have His Spirit in us and we will grow in Him, to be more like Him day by day.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe




   

[ned]

Just when I thought this thread was off to the back burner...God brings it back!

I was going to start another thread with the subject "Faith without works is dead", but I feel now it fits right in here.

No doubt faith is a gift from God, and those who are blessed to receive it do so with no choice of their own. Once we have been given this faith, there are expectations.

Luke 12:47 (YLT)  And that servant, who having known his lord's will, and not having prepared, nor having gone according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes,

Jam 2:26  (CEV)  Anyone who doesn't breathe is dead, and faith that doesn't do anything is just as dead!

Paul writes these very clear instructions on how to live our life:
Eph 4:1  (CEV)  As a prisoner of the Lord, I beg you to live in a way that is worthy of the people God has chosen to be his own.

(The CEV transation is great!)
Eph 4:17-28  As a follower of the Lord, I order you to stop living like stupid, godless people. Their minds are in the dark, and they are stubborn and ignorant and have missed out on the life that comes from God. They no longer have any feelings about what is right, and they are so greedy that they do all kinds of indecent things.
But that isn't what you were taught about Jesus Christ. He is the truth, and you heard about him and learned about him.
You were told that your foolish desires will destroy you and that you must give up your old way of life with all its bad habits.
Let the Spirit change your way of thinking and make you into a new person. You were created to be like God, and so you must please him and be truly holy.
We are part of the same body. Stop lying and start telling each other the truth.
Don't get so angry that you sin. Don't go to bed angry and don't give the devil a chance.
If you are a thief, quit stealing. Be honest and work hard, so you will have something to give to people in need.
Stop all your dirty talk. Say the right thing at the right time and help others by what you say.
Don't make God's Spirit sad. The Spirit makes you sure that someday you will be free from your sins.
Stop being bitter and angry and mad at others. Don't yell at one another or curse each other or ever be rude.
Instead, be kind and merciful, and forgive others, just as God forgave you because of Christ. 

Peter also is a witness to how we are to live for Christ because we are chosen:
2Pe 1:3  We have everything we need to live a life that pleases God. It was all given to us by God's own power, when we learned that he had invited us to share in his wonderful goodness   (how awesome!).
God made great and marvelous promises, so that His nature would become part of us. Then we could escape our evil desires and the corrupt influences of this world.
Do your best to improve your faith. You can do this by adding goodness, understanding, self-control, patience, devotion to God, concern for others, and love.
If you keep growing in this way, it will show that what you know about our Lord Jesus Christ has made your lives useful and meaningful.
But if you don't grow, you are like someone who is nearsighted or blind, and you have forgotten that your past sins are forgiven.
My friends, you must do all you can to show that God has really chosen and selected you. If you keep on doing this, you won't stumble and fall.

Heb 2:1  (CEV)  We must give our full attention to what we were told, so that we won't drift away.

There are so many other scriptures that tell us how to live for Christ. God has called us and provided His Word for our benefit.
2Tim 3:17  The Scriptures train God's servants to do all kinds of good deeds.

I don't think it wise to assume that because we were given such a gift of faith and called to truth and love by God Almighty, that we can now just sit and ignore the instructions on how to live because we think we have no free will. ??!! (I know God is in control of everything  !!)

2Pe 2:21  (CEV)  They would have been better off if they had never known about the right way. Even after they knew what was right, they turned their backs on the holy commandments that they were given.

James 2:24 (KJV)  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

2Tim 2:22-26  Run from temptations that capture young people. Always do the right thing. Be faithful, loving, and easy to get along with. Worship with people whose hearts are pure.
Stay away from stupid and senseless arguments. These only lead to trouble, and God's servants must not be troublemakers. They must be kind to everyone, and they must be good teachers and very patient.
Be humble when you correct people who oppose you. Maybe God will lead them to turn to him and learn the truth.
They have been trapped by the devil, and he makes them obey him, but God may help them escape.

God gives us everything we need to live a life that is pleasing to Him. We need to realize this and run the race set before us.

Would love some responses.

In fellowship & peace,
Marie

btw;
Andy, you're welcome. You are so right in saying God never gives up even when we do. He doesn't change. We do. To remember this each time we're going through an up-hill battle will do us wonders.

Sorin, you're right - the Ethiopian can surely not change his skin - if God hasn't called him to first.  

[orion77]

Hello Marie,

Great post, that CEV version in Eph.4:17-28 are some good words.  I need to read them over and over again until they are sunk in this thick skull of mine.   

All of the apostles were constantly working and fighting against that ole carnal nature.  We all do.  I think while we are still physically alive, we are still working to achieve perfection.  With faith and the Spirit of Christ, along with our obedience, molding us more and more into His nature.

God bless,

Gary

[Andy_MI]

Marie,

That was beautiful! What a wonderful way to start my day in reading your post. Thank you for the encouragement. I feel a little more strength now.

Joe,

Thank you for your words of encouragement. It's such a blessing to have the loving members of the body of Christ in times of need.

Peace,

Andy

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Marie

This post also sheds light on my questions regarding backsliding! I have to re-study this!

Thank you

Arcturus

[hillsbororiver]

Excellent post Marie,

Often I find myself having stumbled over stupid, small, insignificant stuff.

A car following too close behind me.

A rude, oblivious person in at work, or a store or some public place.

A phone call at an inopportune time.

A redundant (my perspective) question.

A slow, inattentive (again, my perspective) clerk, waiter or waitress.

These are but a few of the things that will sometimes give new life to the beast within me, it is painful to look back and see how easily my faith in Him can be distracted and detoured back to the "old man." Especially over the "small things" in this life. Getting caught up in the daily grind of appointments, meetings, one problem after another having to be dealt with and rectified during the course of the workday, some of these unguarded moments when it has become obvious I have not put on the "whole armor of God."

Eph 6:11  Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Yes, the big temptations come and go, they can be agonizing trials but I find that they are much more easily recognized for what they are and even though they are absolutely no fun to experience, that feeling of being drawn to or even thinking about things my spirit has come to hate, my flesh is attracted like a moth to a flame. Then after a little while His Spirit will lead mine to a quiet place where time slows down and I get a new glimpse of how utterly corrupt my flesh is and how weak I am without Him in the forefront of my heart and mind, then I will get a small dose or a taste (this is most assuredly because it is all I am presently able to bear) of His Love and His Glory and His Peace will fill my soul.

It is an incredible experience, one I would love to really describe. Many times revelations or emotions that I feel at the time I truly want to put on paper, put into words, but then it fades along with my memory of the revelations and emotions, I mostly just remember it as a truly awesome and powerfully beautiful, yet very humbling.

I thank you all for your comments and fellowship.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe


   

[hillsbororiver]

Earlier today this verse kept coming to mind, I thought it would be appropriate here;

Mat 6:24  No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.3126

 G3126
μαμμωνᾶς
mammōnas
mam-mo-nas'
Of Chaldee origin (confidence, that is, figuratively wealth, personified); mammonas, that is, avarice (deified): - mammon.

The Amplified Translation reads;

 Matthew 6:24 (Amplified Bible)
   
24No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stand by and be devoted to the one and despise and be [a]against the other. You cannot serve God and mammon (deceitful riches, money, possessions, or [c]whatever is trusted in).

I don't believe we can ever truly separate ourselves from this dual mindset while we are in the flesh, the churches teach the impossible, that we are either/or, one or the other, I think this verse is saying that (once we are called) we ARE subject to both, but we will hate one or the other, when we are tempted to sin and we lust after the object of our desire we hate the voice of His Spirit that admonishes us, but when we submit to His admonitions we hate the voice of the temptor. When we were only natural, carnal unbelievers this conflict did not exist. .

Even though victory has been established through His death and resurrection and our spirit is married to His Spirit, we are still subject to the weakness of the flesh, which we despise more and more as His Spirit increases and we decrease.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

     

[hillsbororiver]

This morning I woke up thinking about how Jesus and the Father are two entities of One Mind and how believers are of two minds in one entity.

Joh 10:30  I and my Father are one.

Rom 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
 
Rom 7:15  For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Believers have the Mind of Christ warring against the carnal mind of the beast within, this struggle with the bondage to sin we were created with underlines the total lack of free will that the denominations say humanty has;

Rom 6:16  Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
 
Rom 6:17  But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
 
Rom 6:18  Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
 
Rom 6:19  I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

This tug of war between the carnal nature and the Spirit of Christ within us ultimately will make us spiritually stronger but I can say from experience that weariness also rears its head at times, making it difficult to connect with others even as they go through the same type of trials within themselves. I believe this weariness serves a noble purpose as it inspires us to shut off the outside influences to seek rest within Him, giving us the strength to move forward in our spiritual walk. 

  
Pro 3:11  My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:

Remembering the promises of rest and replenishment in Him will help us through through these times;

Jer 31:25  For I have satiated the weary soul, and I have replenished every sorrowful soul.
 
Jer 31:26  Upon this I awaked, and beheld; and my sleep was sweet unto me.

Mat 11:28  Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

It is not our reality or destiny to be "free" in the strict sense of the word, we can have the freedom of no longer being slaves to sin but when we are called to our Lord we are to become slaves to righteousness which is Him living in us. I find it is in those private moments with Him when experiencing the feeling of pure peace and love, when He reveals Himself more abundantly and I get a taste of what is to come, and that gives me the strength to continue the race.


Heb 12:1  Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Heb 12:2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
 
Heb 12:3  For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
 
Heb 12:4  Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
 
Heb 12:5  And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
 
Heb 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
 
Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
 
Heb 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ******** and not sons.


His Peace and Wisdom to you,



Joe

The post previous to this (above) I believe ties in to my original post (quoted here).

[ned]

Earlier today this verse kept coming to mind, I thought it would be appropriate here;

Mat 6:24  No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.3126

 G3126
μαμμωνᾶς
mammōnas
mam-mo-nas'
Of Chaldee origin (confidence, that is, figuratively wealth, personified); mammonas, that is, avarice (deified): - mammon.

The Amplified Translation reads;

 Matthew 6:24 (Amplified Bible)
   
24No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stand by and be devoted to the one and despise and be [a]against the other. You cannot serve God and mammon (deceitful riches, money, possessions, or [c]whatever is trusted in).

I don't believe we can ever truly separate ourselves from this dual mindset while we are in the flesh, the churches teach the impossible, that we are either/or, one or the other, I think this verse is saying that (once we are called) we ARE subject to both, but we will hate one or the other, when we are tempted to sin and we lust after the object of our desire we hate the voice of His Spirit that admonishes us, but when we submit to His admonitions we hate the voice of the temptor. When we were only natural, carnal unbelievers this conflict did not exist. .

Even though victory has been established through His death and resurrection and our spirit is married to His Spirit, we are still subject to the weakness of the flesh, which we despise more and more as His Spirit increases and we decrease.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe     

Hi Joe!
Your comments make perfect sense to me. It is so true for me, as I do hate when I cave in to the desires of the flesh, but what's amazing, is I am always aware that I've caved in, I can't SIN and NOT know it. This is good! This is a learning process for me because I get sick of knowing I've sinned, and I'm sure through no goodness of my own, I turn from that sin. How amazing is our God? Could anyone else discipline in this way? 

I would also say the "mammon" quoted in the verse above refers also to man. Do we serve God or man? Do we listen to God or man?  We can't serve man and God. I believe those that try to serve both are like the ones Jesus warns us of in Rev 3:15, they're neither hot nor cold, but are lukewarm.  They will be spit out of His mouth! How many billions will be spit out?
What a great reminder of who we should be serving ALWAYS. Pray without ceasing is a necessity here.

Peace to you Joe.
Love,
Marie

[Deborah-Leigh]

Joe

You wrote...... "I think this verse is saying that (once we are called) we ARE subject to both, but we will hate one or the other,..."

THAT insight is DAZZLING in clarity and truth! I had never seen it that way before! What a liberating insight!

Arcturus

[orion77]

(Mat 6:24)  No one is able to serve two lords; for either he will hate the one, and he will love the other; or he will cleave to the one, and he will despise the other. You are not able to serve God and wealth.


This is an interesting verse, have you looked at the definitions of the words, hate, cleave and despise here.


G3404
μισέω
miseō
mis-eh'-o
From a primary word μῖσος misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).

G472
ἀντέχομαι
antechomai
an-tekh'-om-ahee
From G473 and the middle of G2192; to hold oneself opposite to, that is, (by implication) adhere to; by extension to care for: - hold fast, hold to, support.

G2706
καταφρονέω
kataphroneō
kat-af-ron-eh'-o
From G2596 and G5426; to think against, that is, disesteem: - despise.


Also, look at the word 'wealth' with its definition and spiritual applications.


G3126
μαμμωνᾶς
mammōnas
mam-mo-nas'
Of Chaldee origin (confidence, that is, figuratively wealth, personified); mammonas, that is, avarice (deified): - mammon.


Who are the ones that were given much wealth and chosen above all the other nations in the bible?  Lazarus and the rich man, with Rays article should let us know who the 'rich' are, with the law that they 'trust' in.

Coming out of babylon, now seeing that it was impossible for us to please God through the law, but through faith in obedience.  It is not possible to spirtually see and follow Christ, while under the law. 


(Gal 4:21)  Tell me, those desiring to be under Law, do you not hear the Law?

(Gal 4:22)  For it has been written, Abraham had two sons, one out of the slave woman and one out of the free woman.

(Gal 4:23)  But, indeed, he of the slave woman has been born according to flesh, and he out of the free woman through the promise,

(Gal 4:24)  which things are being allegorized, for these are two covenants, one, indeed, from Mount Sinai bringing forth to slavery (which is Hagar,

(Gal 4:25)  for Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, and she slaves with her children),

(Gal 4:26)  but the Jerusalem from above is free, who is the mother of us all;

(Gal 4:27)  for it has been written, "Be glad, barren one not bearing; break forth and shout, the one not travailing; for more are the children of the desolate rather than she having the husband." Isa. 54:1

(Gal 4:28)  But, brothers, we are children of promise according to Isaac.

(Gal 4:29)  But then, even as he born according to flesh persecuted the one according to Spirit, so it is also now.

(Gal 4:30)  But what says the Scripture? "Cast out the slave woman and her son, for in no way shall the son of the slave woman inherit with the son of the free woman." Gen. 21:10

(Gal 4:31)  Then, brothers, we are not children of a slave woman but of the free woman.


These words are true even today, the ones desiring to be under law persecute those according to Spirit.  Flesh, law, son of the slave woman, and if you can see 'rich' are these who are under the wrath of God.  Spirit, grace, son of the free woman, and if you can see 'poor' are those who are under the righteousness of God.


(Mat 5:3)  Blessed are the poor in spirit! For theirs is the kingdom of the Heavens.

(Mat 19:21)  Jesus said to him, If you desire to be perfect, go sell your property and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in Heaven; and come, follow Me.

(Luk 6:20)  And lifting up His eyes to His disciples, He said: Blessed are the poor, for the kingdom of God is yours.

(Luk 6:21)  Blessed are those hungering now, for you will be filled. Blessed are those weeping now, for you will laugh.

(Luk 6:22)  Blessed are you when men hate you, and when they cut you off, and will reproach you, and will cast out your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man;

(Luk 6:23)  rejoice in that day, and leap for joy; for, behold, your reward is much in Heaven! For their fathers did according to these things to the prophets.

(Luk 6:24)  But woe to you, rich ones, for you have your comfort!

(Luk 6:25)  Woe to you, those having been filled, for you will hunger! Woe to you, those laughing now, for you will mourn and lament!

(Luk 6:26)  Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for their fathers did according to these things to the false prophets.

(2Co 8:9)  For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that being rich, He became poor for your sake, so that you might become rich by the poverty of that One.

(Rev 3:17)  Because you say, I am rich, and I am made rich, and I have need of nothing, and do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked.

(Rev 3:18)  I advise you to buy from Me gold having been fired by fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, and your shame and nakedness may not be revealed. And anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

(Rev 3:19)  I, as many "as I love, I rebuke and I chasten." Be zealous, then, and repent. Prov. 3:12

(Rev 3:20)  Behold, I stand at the door and knock: If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will enter to him, and I will dine with him, and he with Me.


Sorry for the length, but necessary scripture for the explanation.  Can you all see this?

God bless,

Gary

[Deborah-Leigh]

Joe

I saw this while re-reading Ray's LOF part 15 that also gives light on the not being able to serve God and Mammon.

I had read it before....it just had not clicked!   In case this has happend to others too, here is what I found.....again

Quoting Ray....

THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH

I stated earlier that it is through LAW that God controls all things in the universe. Only the ego of the carnal mind is so great that it actually believes it is the exception to the universal rule, and is not subject to law, but is free from law. I tell you assuredly, it is not exempt from law.

We saw that with Adam and Eve, as well as with Peter and all the disciples, that there was always a cause that made men will as they did. But why is it that the natural carnal mind always wills against God? Why does it always will to sin and do evil? And why does the spirit mind of converted man always desire to obey God and do what is good? Could there be a "law" at work here? Yes, indeed there is. The carnal-minded man is governed by one law, whereas the converted man is governed by a different law, but all are governed by law.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" (Rom. 8:1-2).

Notice that one law frees us from another law, but we still remain under some law. All unconverted carnal-minded humanity is under "the LAW of sin and death." That law controls the unregenerate man. And he cannot, of his own will, break the controls of that law. That law will control him until he dies or unless God intervenes with a different offsetting law, namely, "the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus." .............unquote

Arcturus