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Author Topic: Christmas  (Read 21304 times)

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iris

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Christmas
« on: October 16, 2006, 09:39:09 PM »

I haven't read anything in Ray's papers or the emails he gets about Christmas. I would ike to know what the Bible view is on this. I thought someone here could help me out. Thanks!
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gmik

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2006, 10:12:09 PM »

Hi Iris.  Welcome.

On his site, in the e-mail section look for holidays.  That is all physical stuff not spiritual.

Kat is really good at finding things, maybe she will read this.  I really just wanted to welcome you. :D

gena
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Kat

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2006, 12:12:51 AM »

Hi Gena,

Well thanks for the confidence,
I think I just have the time to do the hunting.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-C.html

CHRISTMAS:

Most religious festivals of the world have something to do with sex or fertility. The Christian Holy Days are no different. They ARE in fact, little more than these same pagan festivals with Christian orientations. Christmas, for example IS the pagan Roman Saturnalia or sometimes called "The Festival of Lights." But even the Saturnalia predates the founding of Rome by centuries. This same festival can be traced to Babylon, and yes, you guessed it, to Egypt and their winter celebration of lights.

December 25 is near the winter solstice. It is the time when the sun after having been at the lowest point in the heavens, beings to rise over the world with renewed vigor and power. It was the time of heathen festivities in worship of the sun. The vernal equinox is the point where the sun crosses the celestial equator, about March 20, making day and night of equal length everywhere. This was the time of pagan spring festivals.

The day of December 25 acquired a new significance under the rule of Emperor Aurelian. He proclaimed this day as "Dies Natalis Invicti Solis," or the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. This was because of a strange Eastern religion, Mithraism, whose god Mithras was identified with the Unconquered Sun. During the Saturnalia work of every kind ceased. Schools were closed.

The Roman Saturnalia was boisterous. But whatever the behavior of some Romans, others were simply merry. They ate big dinners, visited their friends, etc. The halls of the Romans were decked with boughs of laurel and of green trees, with lighted candles and with lamps--for the hovering spirits of darkness were afraid of light. Bonfires were lit in high places to strengthen the reviving sun in his course. Candles and green wreaths were given as presents, the streets were crowded with noisy processions of men and women carrying lighted tapers, and public places were decked with flowers and shrubs. The practice of giving and receiving presents was almost as common then as it is now at Christmas. Our present day "Christmas spirit" is actually the spirit of this old Roman festival.
All of this pagan nonsense found in the Christian Church came out of Rome and Greece and Egypt. The worship of sex and fertility pictured by symbols of sex and reproduction and fertility was a major part of pagan religion, and Egypt was the origin of many of these pagan practices. Did God reveal His truth to the Egyptians and expect Moses to learn the truths of God from the Egyptians? Moses learned all the pagan customs of Egypt, but he did not pass so much as one of them onto Israel. All that Moses taught Israel CAME FROM GOD.

SO WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?
What does God think of the religion and wisdom and customs of Egypt?
It means that virtually everything about Christendom—from its name ‘Church,’ to the architecture of their buildings, to the origin of their holy days and doctrines, is all straight out of heathenism,
of which God Almighty declares:
"LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN… inquire NOT after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? Even so WILL I DO LIKEWISE" (Jer. 10:2 & Deut. 12:30).

All Christian doctrines that are not out of paganism are nonetheless, unscriptural.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this will help you Iris.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat



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hughbee40

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2006, 12:25:13 AM »

I used to be very uptight about christmas, halloween and easter.  If you do some research, it's not hard to find that they are all very pagan in their origin.  However, I have found that if you truly have your heart centered on Jesus Christ and believe in the sovereign will of God, these distractions will have very little effect upon you.  I believe, that as many christians have a"flawed" viewpoint as it relates to God, so do those who view Satan as some sort of adversary to God.  While holidays such as christmas, halloween and easter may have no true biblical significance and in many cases become a sort of worship to Satan or an anti-christ belief, to a true christian they are nothing more than a series of holidays.  One word of caution I humbly offer is to never tell your children that there is a Santa Clause.  For no other reason than to keep from lying to them.  One day they will discover that there isn't one and while they may never say "you lied to me", you have established a subliminal precedent that you can and will lie to them.  Always strive to maintain a spirit of truth which led you to L. Ray's website and this forum.

Yours in Christ
Hughbee40
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gmik

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2006, 12:49:23 AM »

Kat, I knew you'd come thru! :)

This forum has done threads on this before, and there really has been no consensus (same for go to church, don't go to church).

Don't you think in America, mostly it is observed cuz we get some time off work?? Gatherings with the family, food, gifts etc.  Think how many "churches' close their doors on the eve and the day, when years ago it was what ya did  --go to church at those times.

I don't think most people worry about what Egyptians did 4,000 yrs ago or what the germans did 200 yrs ago with the christmas tree. Now christendom holds onto the pretense that we are honoring the christchild and remembering His birth ALONG with Madison Avenues campaign to loosen our wallets.

I believe Ray nailed it but in reality with our families it is hard to NOT participate.

gena
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YellowStone

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2006, 12:41:28 PM »

This is indeed a very interesting topic.

I for one participated in many Lutheran Church festivities and activities as a child, all related to Christmas and the celebration of the birth of Christ. Never let it be said that the thought of presents and meeting with family members was always close to mind. The time was however, always a celebration of the birth of Christ.

However, commercialism has now marketed the commerce side of Christmas to the point of totally removing God and Christ from it. Is it now a pagan ritual? To many, yes. But to others, no. I, like Gena care little about what happened several millennia ago.

No way am I lost in the hype of Christmas, and neither do I see this day as greater as any other day.

I guess the question is, would I stop celebrating Christmas with my family? Would I stop playing Christmas music, giving and receiving and visiting with friends? What would this achieve?

Does celebrating a purely secular holiday (with Christian connotations) wrong? Should we ignore the holiday or instead, try to inject the true meaning of the celebration?

Who can answer this truly, for are we all not walking with and according to God.

Gena, I agree with all you said and Kat, your study is as usual, flawless. :)

Many Thanks and Love to you all,

Darren
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Rene

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2006, 02:10:05 PM »

Hi Iris,

A year ago I asked Ray about celebrating Christmas.  I was new to Bible-Truths.com and was asking Ray all sorts of questions because I was desperately seeking "truth" and only wanted to associate with those who were worshipping God in truth.  I am retyping Ray's answer to my question:

"As for Christmas, well, it's the feast of the Roman Saturnalia, and as such is not something that Believers should be actively participating in.  However, if a wife or husband insists on keeping Christmas for the kids sake, I certainly wouldn't break up a marriage over it.  Paul taught us that: "Unto the pure all things are pure."  Let the world do their thing, and remember that we are not to be "OF this world" even though we must still live IN it."

His answer satisfied me because I had done my own research on the origins of Christmas, as well as Easter, i.e. pagan.  I no longer decorate or participate in the gift giving aspects of Christmas.  I'm blessed that my family respects my decision, this includes my only child who is now 23 years old.  This does not mean that there has not been some subtle persecution surrounding this issue.  I still stiffen when I have to defend my beliefs.   

I do not rule out spending time with famiily and love ones during this time of year because that is when most people have time off from their jobs.  Whatever we do, we must do it through the spirit of love.

I hope this is of some help to you.

May the Lord's peace and grace be with you,

Rene'

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all4love

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2006, 03:44:20 PM »

I still celebrate christmas,  however, like Darren and Gena I really don't look at this as being a celebration of Christ's birth.  I celebrate my family (so to speak)  you see, everyone knows that this is the day that all company's take off so family and friends can get together, it is also the only REAL time that I get to spend with my family (and believe me there isn't to much time left to do that with, especially with my parents)

Everyone likes to mention that the holidays are pagan.  However, how many people know that the days of the week also originated by pagan customs and beliefs?  Not only the days of the week but the fact that a week is 7 days long?  Not to mention the months of the year were originated by pagan beliefs and customs.

Because of this reason or should I say this is one of the reasons why I feel that it is ok to Observe Christmas but not Celebrate it in the fashion that the Church Celebrates it.  This is however just my opinion.  I hope that nobody gets offended by it.

May God Bless you all,
all4love
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Extol

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2006, 04:42:42 PM »

It's ridiculous to say that Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas. What does it matter if Romans worshipped the sun on this day? Does that mean WE are worshipping the sun by getting together with family and giving gifts to each other and remembering Christ's birth? Of course not. Is it wrong to thank God more than usual for the Resurrection around Easter time, just because Easter is "pagan"? Of course not. How absurd.
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YellowStone

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2006, 06:48:08 PM »

Extol, Althoough you came on pretty strong :) I agree 100%.

I usually do not take sides on subjects such as these, but being at least a little mature in the truth, we should be able according to the will of God, make a day of getting together with family and giving gifts to each other and remembering Christ's birth and NOT be labeled as pagans.

On the other hand, I would never tell anyone that not celebrating this day (pagan 25th dec) in this way is wrong.

The fact is, each of us holds many things dear to our hearts. Did anyone of us decide this by our own will, or was it by the will of God?

We cannot have it both ways, either all is happening according to God's will or not. Whatever truth we hold was given to us by God. Even the words of Ray a mere human (no disrespect intended) can only be understood by those given the ears to hear.

So is there anything wrong for celebrating Christmas as a season of giving with loved ones?

By judging others, are we not judging God?

There :) I finally got it out. :)

Wen we pray, does God know in advance?

If we don't pray will the outcome be different? (How could it - God is unchanging)

If we don't pray is it because we decide not to, or is it by the will of God?

Sorry about this  ::)

I am having trouble with the Puppet-on-a-String concept. I don't feel like a puppet, but like I said earlier: "either all is happening according to God's will or not".

So if anyone can help, the please do.... :)

Love to all,

darren
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jennie

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2006, 08:05:07 PM »

This isn't spiritual at all but I think Christmas is a lot of fun. All the pretty lights and all.... I love it. We always have what we call a free market at our church for parents and grandparents to come get their children gifts. Most of them aren't able to go to town and get gifts. We all buy or make things for children and our teen-agers wrap the gifts up for the families. We give them a box of groceries too so they can have a good Christmas dinner. Some of us work at the church on Christmas and Thanksgiving too and cook for our community helpers like the police and firemen that have to work all the time. We fix for the folks who work at the little convenience stores in our area. We cook their dinner and deliver to them. It sounds like a lot of work but it's fun. The sad thing I guess is that there are some big churches in our area that have a whole lot of money but they won't turn loose of a penny to help others. They even send people to us to help instead of helping them themselves.We don't mind though. God always provides even though we are a group of (money) poor people.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2006, 08:05:58 PM »

It's ridiculous to say that Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas. What does it matter if Romans worshipped the sun on this day? Does that mean WE are worshipping the sun by getting together with family and giving gifts to each other and remembering Christ's birth? Of course not. Is it wrong to thank God more than usual for the Resurrection around Easter time, just because Easter is "pagan"? Of course not. How absurd.

Hi Extol,

Apparently Paul did not think it ridiculous and absurd to refrain from getting caught up in observing special days or times, especially when the origins of these days are well known. We are in the Sabbath resting in Him 24/7 not on Saturday or Sunday or Christmas or Easter. Every minute of every day is His, and ours to honor, obey and glorify Him.

We shouldn't ruin our family's holiday season by being rigid and unyielding in how we interact with them and others on these days, but to add any special significance to them, like we are honoring God even more or remembering Him especially on these days is not what where we should be at this point in our journey.


Here is an example in Galations 4 of what I am speaking of, I will use a few different translations for clarity;[/color]

Galatians 4 (New International Version)

Paul's Concern for the Galatians
 
 8Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you

Galatians 4 (The Message)

 8-11Earlier, before you knew God personally, you were enslaved to so-called gods that had nothing of the divine about them. But now that you know the real God—or rather since God knows you—how can you possibly subject yourselves again to those paper tigers? For that is exactly what you do when you are intimidated into scrupulously observing all the traditions, taboos, and superstitions associated with special days and seasons and years. I am afraid that all my hard work among you has gone up in a puff of smoke!

Galatians 4 (Amplified Bible)

8 But at that previous time, when you had not come to be acquainted with and understand and know the true God, you [Gentiles] were in bondage to gods who by their very nature could not be gods at all [gods that really did not exist].

9 Now, however, that you have come to be acquainted with and understand and know [the true] God, or rather to be understood and known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly and worthless elementary things [[d]of all religions before Christ came], whose slaves you once more want to become?

10 You observe [particular] days and months and seasons and years!

11 I am alarmed [about you], lest I have labored among and over you to no purpose and in vain.

If you have any scriptural witnesses that proclaim we are to glorify Christ more on one day rather than another I will submit to that authority.

But please don't get the idea that we should be scrooges and bah, humbug away the days our loved ones hold important, we should always be a light and not a burden to those around us. I will take the opportunity again this year to witness to my family and friends how every minute of every day belongs to Him, as I do the other days of the year.

I hope you take this in the spirit it is given, it was not my intention to offend anyone,

Joe

 




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Kat

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2006, 08:31:12 PM »

Quote
But please don't get the idea that we should be scrooges and bah, humbug away the days our loved ones hold important, we should always be a light and not a burden to those around us. I will take the opportunity again this year to witness to my family and friends how every minute of every day belongs to Him, as I do the other days of the year.

I agree with you totally on this Joe.

I understand it is between every individual person and God, to do what He leads them do.
I am not judging anyone as to this or any other thing, why would I want to anyway.
But I do have a different prospective, on this subject.  
It is not the favorite view on this, but some may want to consider both sides.

The very popularity of christmas should cause us to question it.  Anyone and everyone celebrate christmas, outright pagans, nominal Christians, and even Buddhists and Hindus. If in reality, Dec. 25th were a date of the birth of Jesus, there is no doubt that the world would have nothing to do with it.

Gal 4:8  Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. v.9  But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?  v.10 You observe days and months and seasons and years!

Celebrating Christ's birth is a form of worship. But since christmas is all about false beliefs, those who celebrate it are not worshiping in "spirit and truth" (John 4:24).]

Some feel that because of the long passage of time from their pagan inception to the present, the connection to paganism has been diminished over time. While it may be true that most symbols have lost their original meaning and significance, it is strange and ironic that Christendom seeks to commemorate Christ's birth with the faded symbols of paganism.
And even though some people may be ignorant about the source of these things, surely God is not. Can such things please Him?

Can we add mass to the name of our Christ and not blaspheme the name of Christ,  
Pro 30:6  "Add not to His words, lest He reason with thee, And thou hast been found false."

By taking a pagan celebration, "Christianizing" it, and calling it a celebration of the birth of Christ, is most certainly taking the Lord's name in vain.
A question- will Christ allow christmas to be celebrated when He rules the nations, during His reign on earth?

So there you have it, a unpopular point of view to say the least.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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mongoose

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2006, 08:42:30 PM »

  As Joe said, it doesn't really matter if the Romans worshiped the sun on any particular day.  As for thanking God more than usual for the Resurrection around Easter time, well, I would guess that depends on why and where you are.  I haven't found any references in the NT that Peter or Paul remember the resurrection more or less on any day.  Only that they kept it in front of them always.  So, is the day when some celebrate Christmas or Easter a day to worship God and remember the birth, life, and resurrection of Christ...to me, yes...those are days on which to do them....as is every other day.  If we have entered into His sabbath rest, then every day, every minute is the Sabbath.  We have been taught that all is of and for God...so how can any one day be more special than any other?  We can work and go about our lives living every day as a Sabbath to rest in the Lord and serve Him because we know that each day and every single minute of each day is a gift from God and every bit of work we do, whether in our jobs or in our lives away from our occupations, we do for God.  It's all His.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.   Ephesians 6:5-8

Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.  Colossians 3: 22-24

As for the pagan origins, undeniably there.  And I do go to my family's for the holiday season because it would hurt them a lot if I didn't.  But also don't get into the whole "we must celebrate Christ's birth" discussions either.  I just say that Christ wasn't born then...and that has been unpopular enough to get some people really angry.  What I've always thought is that if God had wanted us to celebrate these days, then He would've been specific about when they are.  We don't even know the date of Jesus' birth..and I think that's on purpose.  We can't fix special importance to a particular day if we don't know which day it is, right?  Hope this helps.

mongoose
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Brett

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2006, 08:53:14 PM »

Hi Iris,

A year ago I asked Ray about celebrating Christmas.  I was new to Bible-Truths.com and was asking Ray all sorts of questions because I was desperately seeking "truth" and only wanted to associate with those who were worshipping God in truth.  I am retyping Ray's answer to my question:

"As for Christmas, well, it's the feast of the Roman Saturnalia, and as such is not something that Believers should be actively participating in.  However, if a wife or husband insists on keeping Christmas for the kids sake, I certainly wouldn't break up a marriage over it.  Paul taught us that: "Unto the pure all things are pure."  Let the world do their thing, and remember that we are not to be "OF this world" even though we must still live IN it."

His answer satisfied me because I had done my own research on the origins of Christmas, as well as Easter, i.e. pagan.  I no longer decorate or participate in the gift giving aspects of Christmas.  I'm blessed that my family respects my decision, this includes my only child who is now 23 years old.  This does not mean that there has not been some subtle persecution surrounding this issue.  I still stiffen when I have to defend my beliefs.   

I do not rule out spending time with famiily and love ones during this time of year because that is when most people have time off from their jobs.  Whatever we do, we must do it through the spirit of love.

I hope this is of some help to you.

May the Lord's peace and grace be with you,

Rene'



Hey Rene

Thanks for the share for us of Ray's response. I have been wondering for so long. My wife and my two kids are still celebrate of Christmas. I tried to explain them about pagan's things but I cannot control over them. I let God do all His work. If He reveal Himself to my wife and my kids, changed can happen.

Brett
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YellowStone

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2006, 10:41:43 PM »

Kat,

Your response was fine and I have no problem with it (as usual) :)

But I brought up a point and got no bites, so I will try again with something you mentioned.

Please know that this is not an attack on you. I am merely seeking understanding of a very important issue in my journey with God. :)

You wrote:

And even though some people may be ignorant about the source of these things, surely God is not. Can such things please Him? [/b]

If man has no free will, meaning nothing happens without God's foreknowledge; how can we either please or displease him?

I'm just not getting it. Is anyone here suggesting that "I" that is little me can go against God's plans? Granted, I might kick and fight, but surely God knows that.

So Kat, how then can I displease God? How can the pagan priests?

Moderators, anyone......please join in.  :)

Love to You all,

Darren
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2006, 11:32:43 PM »

Darren,

It is all in the heart, is it the utmost desire of a man's heart to please God? That pleases Him.

We of ourselves, in the flesh cannot please Him but Christ in us does more and more as we die to the flesh daily by consistantly seeking His will in all things.


Psa 69:30  I will praise the name of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving.
 
Psa 69:31  This also shall please the LORD better than an ox or bullock that hath horns and hooves.

Pro 16:6  By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.
 
Pro 16:7  When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.

Loving Him and loving our Brethren, charity, this is the greatest of the fruits of the Spirit.

Heb 13:1 Let brotherly love continue.

Heb 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Heb 13:3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.

Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Heb 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Heb 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Heb 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

Heb 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

Heb 13:16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Heb 13:18 Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.

Heb 13:19 But I beseech you the rather to do this, that I may be restored to you the sooner.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Heb 13:22 And I beseech you, brethren, suffer the word of exhortation: for I have written a letter unto you in few words.

Heb 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.

Heb 13:24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

Heb 13:25 Grace be with you all. Amen.

1Pe 4:8  And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

1Jo 3:22  And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
 
1Jo 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
 
1Jo 3:24  And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
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gmik

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Re: Christmas
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2006, 12:02:44 AM »

I knew there would not be a consensus on this.  We are all at different places and stages in our journey.

One year my whole family went to DisneyWorld for the week between the holidays(holy days?).  Because that cost alot, we gave no presents to anyone-the kids agreed because well, ya know, DISNEYworld!!  That was such an easy way to get out of a tree, food with the relatives, decorating. We just ignored Christmas (well, even w/o snow, Florida was pretty decked out) in as much as we could.  I would like to do that every year.

I just finished reading Romans ch9-ch12.  Awesome chapters.  I think I would be offending weaker brethren to not be at family gatherings. My adult children celebrate Christmas (well, I did bring them up with it-but never a belief in Santa-which I took some hits from the family over). They know I have changed my beliefs but I am walking gingerly as I want them to stay open to all this. My granddaughter?? Last year I loaded her up with gifts...this year, well how do I do this?  Decreasing the gifts year by year?  I don't want to be known as Granny Scrooge either.

My son who now lives in Florida can't wait to come home to a snowy,  old fashioned christmas.  As of right now, i don't know what I will do.  Since LOVE is the best thing, that is going to be my guide toward my family.  God knows my heart, and He made me, and set up all the things that I've experienced in my life, to be at this point in my life.

We KNOW that it is not the unforgiveable sin ;) If it is an "idol of the heart" He wil deal w/ me about that.

Thanks for "listening" to my rambling.
Love ya all, (I enjoyed ALL the posts)

gena
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Christmas
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2006, 12:05:07 AM »

Joe may God bless you :)

Your simple answer removed the confusion. duh!  ???

Joe wrote:

It is all in the heart, is it the utmost desire of a man's heart to please God? That pleases Him.


I cannot fault your reasoning here.

Gen 1:31  
  • And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


We of ourselves, in the flesh cannot please Him but Christ in us does more and more as we die to the flesh daily by consistantly seeking His will in all things.

These few words are amazing to me. Joe you have absolutely know idea how God has used you tonight.

2Cr 2:14
  • Now thanks [be] unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.


How else, but by Christ. It is he alone that has taken us out of this world, and his Father that feeds us knowledge as we grow. I grew some tonight for sure.

Thanks everyone for a great discussion.

I love you al and so does God! :)

Darren
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Christmas
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2006, 12:19:19 AM »

Jennie, as I was reading your post about your church I got this picture in my mind of a Currier & Ives painting.  You know, snow gently falling, carolers singing, hot chocolate steaming for the ice skaters........aaaahhhhhh.....

Maybe that is why some of us still "do" christ-mass==all those memories of a Victorian type era, dreams unfulfilled, dolls we didn't get, the time we got exactly what we wanted, for me it is memories of my mom & dad together before they divorced.. a time when my own children were young & innocent....

Time has a way of flying.....I am getting myself sad over nothing!! :'(

me
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