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[orion77]

(Luk 5:36 LITV)  And He also told a parable to them: No one puts a piece of a new garment on an old garment; otherwise both the new will tear, and the old does not match the piece from the new.

(Luk 5:37 LITV)  And no one puts new wine into old skins; otherwise, the new wine will burst the skins, and it will be poured out, and the skins will perish.

(Luk 5:38 LITV)  But new wine is to be put into new skins, and both are preserved together.

(Luk 5:39 LITV)  And no one drinking old wine immediately desires new; for he says, The old is better.


Both the old and new are preserved together, when the new wine is put into new skins.  This is the beginning of the new covenant.  New wine and new skins has another connection.


(Joh 3:1 LITV)  But there was a man from the Pharisees, Nicodemus his name, a ruler of the Jews.

(Joh 3:2 LITV)  This one came to Jesus by night and said to Him, Rabbi, we know that You have come as a teacher from God. For no one is able to do these miraculous signs which You do, except God be with Him.

(Joh 3:3 LITV)  Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, If one is not generated from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God.

(Joh 3:4 LITV)  Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be generated, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born?

(Joh 3:5 LITV)  Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, If one is not generated out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.

(Joh 3:6 LITV)  That having been generated out of the flesh is flesh, and that having been generated out of the Spirit is spirit.

(Joh 3:7 LITV)  Do not wonder because I said to you, You must be generated from above.

(Joh 3:8 LITV)  The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice; but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone having been generated from the Spirit.

(Joh 3:9 LITV)  Nicodemus answered and said to Him, How are these things able to occur?

(Joh 3:10 LITV)  Jesus answered and said to him, You are the teacher of Israel, and you do not know these things?

(Joh 3:11 LITV)  Truly, truly, I say to you, That which we know, we speak; and that which we have seen, we testify. And you do not receive our testimony.

(Joh 3:12 LITV)  If I tell you earthly things, and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

(Joh 3:13 LITV)  And no one has gone up into Heaven, except He having come down out of Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven.

(Joh 3:14 LITV)  And even as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,

(Joh 3:15 LITV)  that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

(Joh 3:16 LITV)  For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

(Joh 3:17 LITV)  For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

(Joh 3:18 LITV)  The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing has already been condemned, for he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.

(Joh 3:19 LITV)  And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness more than the Light, for their works were evil.

(Joh 3:20 LITV)  For everyone practicing wickedness hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, that his works may not be exposed.

(Joh 3:21 LITV)  But the one doing the truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God.


Nicodemus, a pharisee and ruler of the Jews, could not understand these words, and even today many still can not see, for they desire the old mixed with the new, but by mixing the new with the old perishes the wine, it takes a new skin (rebirth) to preserve them both.

The obedient ones are spiritually raised out of death and into the Life and Light of Christ and press onto maturity with the faith of Christ.  Learning, living and progressing from faith to faith, because living things do not continue in death, but came out of death through a seed, to produce fruit to the One planting.

God bless,

Gary

[YellowStone]

Excellent post Gary and very thought provoking.

I can see a very close tie between the following Scripture:


Joh 3:20,21 (LITV) 

• For everyone practicing wickedness hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, that his works may not be exposed.
• But the one doing the truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God.

Luk 5:39 (LITV)

• And no one drinking old wine immediately desires new; for he says, The old is better.

The following words of John are very enlightning

Joh 3:7 (LITV) 

• Do not wonder because I said to you, You must be generated from above.

Nicodemus was told straight that he could only understand unless he was given to power from above to do so. Wow, Christ told him not to wonder why; he infact did not want Nicodemus to understand.

So why couldn't Nicodemus understand and similarly why is it today that only a few do still?

Joh 3:8 (LITV) 

• Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice; but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone having been generated from the Spirit.

Does this mean that Nicodemus was born of the spirit because Christ said: "Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice; but you do not know from where He comes" (emphasis on the word 'you')

This is an interesting thought, because Christ did die for everyone, so that everyone would be saved. Nicodemus certainly did not go through some earthly "born-again" ritual in order to receive the spirit, Christ had already given it to him. So what was missing, that Nicodemus could not understand?

This is indeed interesting, the Spirit speaks to whom he desires, but no one of the Spirit knows from where he comes and from where he goes. Clearly the Spirit spoke in parables so as not to be understood, or presented tibits of information like pieces to a puzzle; would this not amass confusion instead of understanding?

Have I got this right?

1. We are all have the Spirit due to Christ's death and resurrection.
2. Although the Spirit speaks to us, it does not mean that we are given to uinderstand.
3. Understanding comes from God and all are not given the privilege. (Generated from Above)

Corrects are always welcome?

Moderators step in, please

Love,

Darren

[orion77]

Hello Darren, maybe these will help:


(1Co 2:5 LITV)  that your faith might not be in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

(1Co 2:6 LITV)  But we speak wisdom among the perfect, but not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, those being brought to nothing.

(1Co 2:7 LITV)  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, having been hidden, which God predetermined before the ages for our glory,

(1Co 2:8 LITV)  which none of the rulers of this age has known. For if they had known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;

(1Co 2:9 LITV)  according as it has been written, "Eye has not seen, and ear has not heard," nor has it risen up into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for those that love Him. Isa. 64:4

(1Co 2:10 LITV)  But God revealed them to us by His Spirit, for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.

(1Co 2:11 LITV)  For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of a man within him? So also no one has known the things of God except the Spirit of God.


God bless,

Gary

[YellowStone]

Hi Gary,

I guess I am at a loss      No surprise there.

But you did include the following Scripture:

(1Co 2:10 LITV)  But God revealed them to us by His Spirit, for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.


Which seems to fit with my post. All of what we know is of God through His Spirit, but not all that we are told via the Spirit is understood.

Is this what you are meaning ?

Bit slow today ........

Love,

Darren

[orion77]

Hello Darren,

I think the reason Nicodemus and the many can not understand, because they mix the two covenants.  If we are not born again from the Spirit, the flesh simply can't understand, because the flesh minds those things of the flesh, and the spirit minds those things of the spirit.

Jesus came teaching new and drastic things, and the relligious having rule over the people would have nothing to do with it, for fear of losing their position.  Just because many do not understand these things now, does not mean they will never understand.  He is Lord over the whole day, the darkness and the light.  Each in His own time.

New wine put in with the old wine will burst the skins and they both perish.  But new wine put into new skins, will preserve them both.  God does something new through Christ.  How can turning the other cheek, forgiving your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, bless those who despitefully abuse you, and finally, forgive them Father for they do not know what they do, compare with the old covenant.  Eye for an eye, and tooth for a tooth are fleshly, carnally minded laws that lead to death. 

The new is written within the hearts of men and women, where His Spirit dwells.  A totally new and higher spiritual law of faith, love, mercy and forgiveness.  The old is not done away, but fulfilled, regenerated into something better with a far higher glory.  We must walk with Jesus and follow Him without the gates of the old Jerusalem, and be crucified with Him.  Born again with His Spirit and His life.

God bless,

Gary

[YellowStone]

Thanks Gary, it would appear that we are on the same page.

Darren

[orion77]

No problem, Darren, knew we were on the same page, just maybe a different paragraph.   

The difference in the glory between the old and the new is also very interesting.


(Heb 3:3 LITV)  For He was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by so much as the one having built the house has more honor than the house.

(2Co 3:6 LITV)  who also made us able ministers of a new covenant, not of letter, but of Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit makes alive.

(2Co 3:7 LITV)  But if the ministry of death having been engraved in letters in stone was with glory, so as that the sons of Israel could not gaze into "the face of Moses" because of the glory of his face, which was to cease, Ex. 34:34

(2Co 3:8 LITV)  how much rather the ministry of the Spirit will be in glory!

(2Co 3:9 LITV)  For if the ministry of condemnation was glory, much rather the ministry of righteousness abounds in glory.

(2Co 3:10 LITV)  For even that which has been made glorious has not been made glorious in this respect, because of the surpassing glory.

(2Co 3:11 LITV)  For if the thing done away was through glory, much rather the thing remaining is in glory.

(2Co 3:12 LITV)  Then having such hope, we use much boldness.

(2Co 3:13 LITV)  And not as "Moses, who put a veil over his face," for the sons of Israel not to gaze at the end of the thing being done away. Ex. 34:35

(2Co 3:14 LITV)  But their thoughts were hardened, for until the present time the same veil remains on the reading of the Old Covenant, not being unveiled, that it is being done away in Christ.

(2Co 3:15 LITV)  But until today, when Moses is being read, a veil lies on their heart.

(2Co 3:16 LITV)  But whenever it turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Ex. 34:34

(2Co 3:17 LITV)  And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

(2Co 3:18 LITV)  But we all with our face having been unveiled, having beheld the glory of the Lord in a mirror, are being changed into the same image from glory to glory, as from the Lord Spirit.


The new sounds much better to me!   

God bless,

Gary

[YellowStone]

Great stuff once again Gary

I'm with you, the new sounds so much better than the old. However, as with almost everything, old habits die hard, hence:

Luk 5:39 (LITV)

• And no one drinking old wine immediately desires new; for he says, The old is better.

This is a very interesting verse, for Luke is acknowledging the road to truth and understanding will not be easy.

Fits well withthe words of Matthew.

Matthew 7:13, 14

• “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. li]
  [li]But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.[/

I think many have found their comfort zone and really don't want to get off life's super freeway - freeway to destruction.

God be with you Gary,

Darren

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello everyone

I see this tread flowing with the Spirit of wisdom and understanding and like mindedness! What a joy!

Here is something to add....

John 14:3  "If I go, I will come again"   

Some understand this to point to Pentecost and others to when sinners are converted. The Scriptures declare the reverse, that at the time of our Lord's second coming the world will be far from converted. Rev 1 : 7  "...all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him"   Those not loving His appearing would not be wailing if they had been converted.   Also we are shown in 2 Tim 3: 1-4 the pricture of the end times...."perilous times..people will be lovers of self, greedy, proud, arrogant, abusive, unholy, profane, slanderers, uncontrolled and fierce, haters of good,  treacherous..." to name a few! Luke 21 :34-35 Take heed to yourselves lest that day come upon you unawares, for as a snare shall it come on all them (not taking heed) that dwell on the face of the earth"....

 This could mean in the end times the world will be awash in the old wine (laws)  or , burst old skins that have had new wine mixed in with old wine...(Christian Mystery Babylon)  ANDThis is meant to be! It is part of Gods plan because the first advent of Christ born on earth and then offered as a sin offering was to REDEEM us ALL and the second coming is to RESTORE us ALL...some more than others!  The bigger the restoration the greater HIS GLORY!

So as Paul saw...things are getting worse...old wine and blended wine all makes drunk, broken and needing restoration that Christ alone can bring....We have to fear not, look up and be anxious for nothing while our faith is being tested......against the backdrop of the worlds evil drunken debauchery....Yep! ...to be acounted worthy we must overcome the influences of the present evil world ie...Old Wine....New and Old in Old wine skins....

We who are acounted worthy will be separated...a peculiar people....unmixed with the better tasting OLD and unadulterated with the compromising Old and New....Mystery Babylon....The Church of Christ are the CALLED OUT ONES called and if found faithfull, chosen to reign with Christ...

Jesus says in Luke  21:36....pray always that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man...

And Matt 26: 29 I say to you, I shall not drink agian of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it with you new and of superior quality in My Father's kingdom.

New wine?  Superiour quality?  ...wine of Restoration? ...you think ...I believe so!

Arcturus

[Kat]

Hi Gary,

This is from Ray's article and is totally in agreement with your post.

http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html  ------------------------------

Christendom is attempting to believe in the New Covenant, while at the same time trying to live in the Old Covenant. This can’t be done. In fact, Jesus sternly warned against attempting to do such a contradictory and damaging endeavor:

"And He [Jesus] spoke also a parable unto them [the Pharisees]: No man puts a piece of new garment upon an old: if otherwise, then both the new makes a rent [tear], and the piece that was taken out of the new agrees not with the old [‘NOT according with the covenant which I made with their fathers (the OLD Covenant, Heb. 8:9)]. And no man puts new wine into old bottles [wineskins]; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish [be RUINED]. But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved. No man also having drunk old wine straightway desires new; for he says, The OLD is better" (Luke 5:36-29).

This is a parable! Jesus is speaking of the Old and New Covenants. We cannot, we dare not, try to put the old with the new. BOTH WILL BE RUINED! Why don’t we believe Jesus? We can’t put the Old and the New together. And true to Jesus’ words, when people come into a knowledge of the New Covenant, they PREFER THE OLD BETTER!

Did you also notice that when we put these two covenants in their proper places (the Old is for babes to bring them to Christ, while the new is for those maturing into Sonship), that they are BOTH PRESERVED? Yes, both are preserved, but only if we don’t MIX THEM. Could anything be clearer.

The "Chosen" live by the New Covenant: The "Called" try to live by the New and the Old Covenants. They have never learned this simple lesson: "No servant can serve TWO masters…" (Luke 16:13). The two covenants are not even in "according" with one another—they are not to be "unequally yoked together," seeing that they are not equal. If you want to be a New Testament Christian, then you need to learn and know what the New Testament is all about.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Darren,

This might help with what you were asking.

email to Ray ---
Resurrection
« on: September 12, 2006, 11:12:27 AM »

Whereas John 3:3 in the King James says "born again," it would better translated "begotten anew from above."  In the Greek there is but one word for both "begotten and born."  Only the context can separate the proper use. At present the Elect Saints of  God have only the "earnest" of our full spiritual birth into His Kingdom:  "...ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of PROMISE [a promise of a future fulfilment] Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory"  (Eph. 1:13-14).

http://bible-truths.com/lake7.html ---

UNDERSTANDING COMES ONLY FROM THE SPIRIT

 John 16: 12-15 "I have yet MANY THINGS to say unto you, but ye CANNOT bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH: for He shall not speak of Himself [Jesus IS this Spirit of Truth]; but whatsoever He shall hear [from His Father], that shall He speak: and He will show you things to come. He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of Mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father has are Mine: therefore said I, that He shall take of Mine, and shall show it unto you."

So why didn’t the disciples understand these things when Jesus first taught them? Because they weren’t converted as yet. They did not have the Spirit of God as yet. That is the ONLY way we can ever understand these deep symbolic mysteries of God:

"But God has revealed them unto us BY HIS SPIRIT: for the Spirit searches ALL things, yea, the DEEP things of God" (I Cor. 2:10)

"But we have the MIND of Christ" (Verse 16).

I believe we need to beware of those who claim to know God’s Spiritual Truths, but know preciously little about God’s Word, the Scriptures. God’s Spirit never contradicts His Word, but the Church’s teaching contradicts God’s Word in hundreds of places.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Kat

You say you believe..."we need to beware of those who claim to know God's Spiritual Truths, but know preciously little about Gods word, the Scriptures." unquote

I thought about WHO you could possibly be refering to

After some thought I came to the conclusion that those who "claim to know God's Spiritual Truths, and who know precious little about His Word" are the Moslems, the Hindus and in short the Pagan and Heathens....Is this who you meant? or have I got you wrong?


As I understand it the false teachers, or the wolves in sheeps clothing know only too well the scriptures!..We just have to see the line up of theological PHD's some of them wield about....Not like our Ray...a roofer!..God  Bless him!....(I believe Ray not only knows the Scriptures but also I think he knows and has experienced something of the power of God...

I think we have to watch out for those who KNOW God's word as Jesus identified them. Snakes, Hypocrites, White washed Sepulchers...John 5:39,40 "You search and investigate and pore over the Scriptures diligently, because you suppose and trust that you have eternal life through them. And these very Scriptures testify about Me! 40 And still you are notwilling but refuse to come to Me, so that you might have life."

This is my understanding, ( keeping in mind I only see in part).... of Eph 6:12 For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood (for me this means Moslems, Pagans etc) contending only with physical opponents, but against the despotisms, (Mystery Babylon) against the powers, against the master spirits (for me this means false teachings...Islam...Judaism...Paganism...Capitalism....Communism etc...) who are the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly sphere.

As a precaution I enjoy what Jesus says....Matt 7:16...by their fruits you shall know them....and as a guideline I do not think the following should be taken lightly (and I am preaching only to me here!)...1John 4:1  "Beloved, do not put faith in every spirit, but prove, test the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world."


Arcturus

[Kat]

Hi Arcturus,

This is a quote from Ray's article in lake of fire no. 7 --------------

I believe we need to beware of those who claim to know God’s Spiritual Truths, but know preciously little about God’s Word, the Scriptures. God’s Spirit never contradicts His Word, but the Church's teaching contradicts God’s Word in hundreds of places.
End of excerpt from Ray's article.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe he shows who he was talking about, I put it in bold.
If you look at that statement farther you will see he said, "but know preciously little about God's Word."
I think what Ray means here, 'know' as in understands the Word.

http://bible-truths.com/lake7.html --------------------------------------------

Therefore, how many churches complete THE WHOLE CHURCH OF GOD?

"…write in a book and send it unto the SEVEN churches which are in Asia…" (Rev. 1:11).

Were there not churches (congregations) also in Judea as well? Even in Rome? Why only the seven churches "in ASIA?" Because these seven congregations completed all that Jesus had to say to all congregations, everywhere. This is a COMPLETE revelation for ALL CHURCHES. These seven congregations had within them all of the sins, weaknesses, and shortcomings of all congregations everywhere during ALL TIME. I will make this abundantly and Scripturally clear. But on the positive side, all of the churches had at least a "few names" that were not spiritually defiled, and who will be in the first resurrection as Sons and Daughters of God to bring the rest of the harvest, the great fall harvest into the Kingdom.

All seven churches were spiritually "lukewarm," which is like being spiritually "dead," because they all "left their first love," and they all had a members who "say they are Jews [spiritually circumcised and converted], and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan," and all the congregations of the churches of God down through the generations have been ruled over by the "Nicolaitanes."

ALL SEVEN CHURCHES HAD ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT EACH OTHER HAD, AND ALL OF THE CHURCHES OF GOD DOWN THROUGH THE GENERATIONS HAD ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THE SEVEN CHURCHES OF REVELATION HAD. IT IS A PROPHECY OF THIS VERY CHURCH THAT EXISTS AROUND THE WORLD TODAY!

And that my dear readers is how these churches in Asia are all SYMBOLS for what the Church of God would be like from the time John saw this vision, down through two thousand years of Church history, and out into the future when Jesus purges all evil from His Church and brings them all into the Family and Kingdom of His Father!
End of excerpt from Ray's article.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Does this help, it's not always easy to understand what someone is getting at 
But I go along with Ray on this, the churches are totally bankrupt,
when it comes to the knowledge of the truth.

let me know it I can help more.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Kat

I am aware that "the CHURCH'S teaching contradicts God's Word in hundreds of places. " (Ray)  ....who has provided ample evidence of Church Heresy. Ref LOF part 2 THEY SPEAK WITH FORKED-ED TONGUE.

My direction of enquiry was  addressed to you..."I thought about who YOU could be possibly refering to.... is this what YOU meant...or have I got YOU wrong...My question was to YOU regarding the need to beware of those who know preciously little about God's Word...

In the context of Rays insight and LOF series I have not found any error and have no dispute.  In the context of what you quoted I asked YOU to tell me what YOU think....I shared what I thought albeit OUTSIDE the context originally presented by Ray.

To answer my question and sharing what I understood you simply refered me back to RAy. I follow what Ray is talking about in LOF.  YOU did not need to put what Ray said in bold. I wanted to know what YOU thought.

I have to conclude in the kind words of Gary to Daren...quote..."no problem....knew we were on the same page. Just a different paragraph

and quoting Ray LOF part 7 from the same page and follow up paragraph to your post...."Not that I am the only one to begin understanding these things!" ....

 I feel privilaged to be beginning to understand ....and I do know that I have an EXTREMELY LONG WAY TO GO YET....

You asked me if YOUR (not Ray's) responce helped...I have to say no, it did not...not to say I DO NOT APPRECIATE WHAT RAY PRESENTS...but for the acknowledgement  in your own words..."it is not always easy to understand what someone is getting at

I understand that I am offered the opportunity and privilage to be discussing LOF here.(.not in any way to mislead or teach or preach ) and that is what I believe was doing and have been doing....I was sharing...

Arcturus ...in training



 

[Kat]

Hi Arctirus,

In your first post you asked--

After some thought I came to the conclusion that those who "claim to know God's Spiritual Truths, and who know precious little about His Word" are the Moslems, the Hindus and in short the Pagan and Heathens....Is this who you meant? or have I got you wrong?

My reply was saying, through Ray's article, that the church was the main ones who knew precious little about His Word.
I see you get that.  So to move on, you asked--

My direction of enquiry was  addressed to you..."I thought about who YOU could be possibly refering to.... is this what YOU meant...or have I got YOU wrong...My question was to YOU regarding the need to beware of those who know preciously little about God's Word...

OK, this is how I see things.
I have come to view the church in the same light as Ray teaches.
And from my experience in the church know, that it is true.
I believe that to have false doctrines and teach blasphemy,
is worse than not knowing scripture at all.
I feel like no matter how sincere they are,
they will face a grievous purging in the lake of fire, to rid them of all the false doctrines.
God will be totally just in dealing with all,
and their experience must be worth, what God has instore for them later.

Luk 12:48  But the servant who did things that deserved a beating without knowing it will receive a light beating. Much will be required from everyone to whom much has been given. But even more will be demanded from the one to whom much has been entrusted."

It is all of God and He is dealing with mankind in a way that we are not able to understand.
It is only a special few that have been chosen, be thankful, the rest are lost until judgment.

Ecc 9:1  I thought long and hard about all this and saw that God controls the actions of wise and righteous people, even their love and their hate. No one knows anything about what lies ahead.
Ecc 9:2  It makes no difference. The same fate comes to the righteous and the wicked, to the good and the bad, to those who are religious and those who are not, to those who offer sacrifices and those who do not. A good person is no better off than a sinner; one who takes an oath is no better off than one who does not.
Ecc 9:3  One fate comes to all alike, and this is as wrong as anything that happens in this world. As long as people live, their minds are full of evil and madness, and suddenly they die.
Ecc 9:4  But anyone who is alive in the world of the living has some hope; a live dog is better off than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5  Yes, the living know they are going to die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward; they are completely forgotten.
Ecc 9:6  Their loves, their hates, their passions, all died with them. They will never again take part in anything that happens in this world.
Ecc 9:7  Go ahead---eat your food and be happy; drink your wine and be cheerful. It's all right with God.
Ecc 9:8  Always look happy and cheerful.
Ecc 9:9  Enjoy life with the one you love, as long as you live the useless life that God has given you in this world. Enjoy every useless day of it, because that is all you will get for all your trouble.
Ecc 9:10  Work hard at whatever you do, because there will be no action, no thought, no knowledge, no wisdom in the world of the dead---and that is where you are going.
Ecc 9:11  I realized another thing, that in this world fast runners do not always win the races, and the brave do not always win the battles. The wise do not always earn a living, intelligent people do not always get rich, and capable people do not always rise to high positions. Bad luck happens to everyone.
Ecc 9:12  You never know when your time is coming. Like birds suddenly caught in a trap, like fish caught in a net, we are trapped at some evil moment when we least expect it.

I don't know if this answers you question, but I hope it went along with this thread 

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[orion77]

Hello everybody,

Kat, I am glad you posted that from Rays articles.  Finally, whew, I have been posting alot about the difference between the old and new lately.  Thank you for your diligence.

Once our eyes are opened to that truth, wow, the scriptures come more alive.  I have to admit, the longer this walk with Christ has become, it never ceases to amaze me how He opens things here and there, growing us from faith to faith.  That is what it is like to be drinking from those living waters, they bring continuous growth and life.  That's the difference between the old and the new.  Night and day, darkness and light, death and life.


(Rom 6:21 LITV)  Therefore what fruit did you have then in the things over which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

(Rom 6:22 LITV)  But now having been set free from sin, and having been enslaved to God, you have your fruit unto sanctification, and the end everlasting life.


God bless,

Gary

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello everyone

Do you think that  "the Moslems and Hindus and in short the Pagans and Heathens" could also be aligned to being those who "claim to know God's Spiritual Truths and know precious little about His Word ? ....that these people (Hindus, Jews, Moslems etc ) we would not so much need to beware of  (as much as the wolves INSIDE the Church ) but more to be AWARE of as the  lost OUTSIDE the Church.

In the discussion Ray devotes to his LOF part 7, I agree that we have to BEWARE of "those who claim to know God's Spiritual Truths and know precious little about His Word....

2 Peter 2 : 3 (Amplified)....And in their covetousness, lust, greed, they will exploit you with false, cunning arguments. From of old the sentence of condemnation, for them has not been idle; their destruction, eternal misery has not been asleep.    (King James)...And through covetousness shall theywith feigned words make merchandise of you; whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not....

The Scriptures you present Kat are a sure sober warning and I am grateful for 1 Thes 5:9...For God has not appointed us to incure His wrath. He did not select us to condemn us but that we might obtain His salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ the Messiah.

and as the Scriptures reveal...we will all be salted with fire....for the Judgment is NOW on the Church ( I take that to mean..Called out ones...not Mystery Babylon!) ....


I enjoyed the comfort, encouragement and insight I gleaned out of Rom 6:21, 22  that you quoted Gary.and to add Acts 17 : 30 Such former ages of ignorance God, it is true ignored and allowed to pass unnoticed; but now He charges all people everywhere to repent, to change their minds for the better and heartily amend their ways, with ABHORRENCE OF THEIR PAST SINS....(That abhorrence of their past sins is talking to me)

I hope I am in line with the rules of this forum that is primerily a place for people of like mind to fellowship and secondarily to DISCUSS AND QUESTION what they (US, WE..ALL OF US PEOPLE OF LIKE MIND IN FELLOWSHIP NOT YOU, ME...YOUR SPLINT IN YOUR EYE AND MY BEAM IN MY EYE ) WHAT WE (they)... learn on bible-truths. com

Arcturus