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BACKSLIDING
Andy_MI:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on October 26, 2006, 10:11:10 AM ---
--- Quote from: Andy_MI on October 26, 2006, 09:47:07 AM ---Hi all,
Just a thought I had while reading the posts:
What about the saints who were raised after Jesus' resurrection?
--- End quote ---
Andy,
Do you believe they were raised with incorruptable bodies and ascended into heaven?
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
--- End quote ---
Sorry Joe, you missed my point... You said:
--- Quote ---Only those who came after the death and resurrection of Jesus have the New Covenant, the better Promise.
--- End quote ---
That's the point I'm trying to make,,, since there was a resurrection of "Old covenant" saints at the time of Christ's resurrection.. wouldn't that quaify them for the "New covenant?" Do you see what I'm saying? It Has nothing to do whether they were raised incorruptable.. or if they assended,,, (that's a study I'll have to do before I can digress into that). But I just was thinking that they would have been given oppurtunity to receive Jesus while alive and resurrected. Wouldn't that be qualifaction for old covenant saints to receive the new covenant promise? We also don''t know the names of those who were raised either,, Maybe John the Baptist was among them.. Do we know for sure?
Also I think we need to be careful who we judge to be destined to the lake of fire.
That's why I brought up the verses about Judas repenting. I don't think we have the qualifacations of be the judge of Judas's heart.
You also said:
--- Quote ---No, I think it is a safe bet Judas will experience the second death, more surprisingly (to me at least when it was first revealed) is so will John the Baptist.
--- End quote ---
Do you know that for a fact? Do you know his heart? and do you know the Lord's plans and intentions for Judas? Only those whos names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death. Do you know if his name is not in the book of life.
Rev 20:15 VW
(15) And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of Fire.
I'm thinking that we need to be careful about judging who's who in the lake of fire. Only God knows the heart. And His Plan and Will is perfect, not ours.
Peace,
Andy
Andy_MI:
--- Quote from: Kat on October 26, 2006, 10:50:47 AM ---Hi Andy,
I think I see what your saying.
The saints of Jesus' day, died before His death and resurrection, so could not be in the kingdom.
But they were resurrected back to physical life, after Christ had risen.
So now they were able to receive the Holy Spirit and Christ could live in them,
and if they were one of the chosen, would be in the kingdom.
I had never looked at it that way before.
They were so close, live at the time of Jesus,
but died before they could receive the Spirit.
So God, in His astounding love for those few, miraculously brought them back to life,
to give them what they just barely missed.
How great is our God :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Yes! thank you Kat!
I have sure a hard time conveying my thoughts and you cleared up what I was trying to say very nicely,
Bless your heart Kat
longhorn:
Well Dangit, I guess I was pre-destined to backslide. Oh well, hello Lake of Fire.
Love in Christ
Longhorn
Kat:
Thanks Joe,
That is what I was looking for,
but I could not remember where it was.
That makes it clear, no one that came before Christ will be in the kingdom.
It takes all of us working together, to come to understanding of a thing.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Kat on October 26, 2006, 11:41:01 AM ---Thanks Joe,
That is what I was looking for,
but I could not remember where it was.
That makes it clear, no one that came before Christ will be in the kingdom.
It takes all of us working together, to come to understanding of a thing.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Kat,
You are very welcome.
There are 2 judgements, the elect in their lifetime, and everyone else at The White Throne Judgement.
Read Hebrews Chapter 11, the OT Prophets were not given the same promise (Old Covenant) as those who came after the death (sacrifice) and resurrection of Jesus.
Andy,
I certainly agree and can see (as Kat wrote) that those who were raised from the dead at the time of Jesus' resurrection were given the opportunity to receive the "better promise," the New Covenant, but they were still "in the flesh" and were yet imperfect, they were not raised to immortality.
Judas died before Christ did, are you saying Judas was one of those who were resurrected at the time of Jesus' resurrection? John the Baptist also died before Jesus, that is why it is written that the least in the Kingdom is greater than he, John the Baptist was still under the Old Covenant.
This statement by Jesus would have to be untrue if John the Baptist was raised and given the New Covenant, unless of course he backslid and followed his flesh after his resurrection, but that is way too much speculation for me.
Luk 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
Kat, I love your statement "It takes all of us working together, to come to an understanding of a thing." It is so true, I am always thankful for the iron sharpening iron as we study together in this Forum.
His Peace and Wisdom to you all,
Joe
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