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Author Topic: Fruit of the tree of life  (Read 2342 times)

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eggi

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Fruit of the tree of life
« on: October 26, 2006, 05:53:07 PM »

And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever. (Gen 3:22 ASV)

And Jehovah God saith, `Lo, the man was as one of Us, as to the knowledge of good and evil; and now, lest he send forth his hand, and have taken also of the tree of life, and eaten, and lived to the age,' (Gen 3:22 YLT)


The word translated forever and to the age is the good old:

H5769
עלם    עולם
‛ôlâm  ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.


This may be a problem of me not understanding a foreign language, I'm not a native English speaker, but here is my question:

Using the word forever here doesn't make sense, seeing that God says that if Adam and Eve eats of, or touches the tree of knowledge of good and evil; this will happen: Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die (Gen 3:3)

Since they have already eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they will surely die. This will have to happen before they go on eating ALSO of the tree of Life. Seems to me that there is a need to FIRST eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and THEN and ONLY then to eat of the tree of Life. Possibly the fruit of the tree of Life will not seem tempting if you don't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil first.

Now I got a little sidetracked...

I know that olam shouldn't be translated forever. Even so, I have a problem with the expression to the age found in YLT. It would make more sense to me (given my understanding) that it was translated have life aeonian.

God intended for Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and he intends for everyone to eat of the tree of Life. However, all will not eat of that tree (of Life) in the same time. It sounds to me that the YLT translation lived to the age is speaking of living, and not even once dying unto the age. The YLT translation is telling me that if you eat of the tree of Life you live without dying unto the age. The age in question would then be the Age of ages. This doesn't make sense to me as we all die in Adam before that time.

Maybe most of you reading this have a huge question mark written all over your faces by now. Sorry about that, it's hard to explain just how I'm thinking, but I'll just post this and then I'll see whether anyone poses the right questions, which will again help me clarify MY question... Ok, that was probably a bit unclear too...

Well, I'll just leave this open, waiting your responses.

God bless you and keep you,
Eirik
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 08:43:30 PM by eggi »
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gmik

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Re: Fruit of the tree of life
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2006, 12:18:50 AM »

I like the Youngs Literal, but overall, I read the Concordant Literal. It translates the aions of the aions correctly. Altho for the OT they only have certain books translated so far.  Just type in aion in the search on Ray's site and you can find places where he teaches on it.

The Concordant for Gen 3:22 says "lives for the eon"  The Hebrew also says eat of the Tree of the Living One.  I like that.

E-sword and Interlinear Scriptural Analyzer are both great study sites.  You probably already know these but just in case you or someone else doesn't.  ISA is easily downloaded onto your desktop.  E-sword too, but you have to do a second step to get the concordant on e sword.  You can get the entire Concordant with a click.

Better heads than mine will come along and help you out with your question.

Gena
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eggi

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Re: Fruit of the tree of life
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2006, 07:54:42 AM »

Thanks Gena,

"Lives for the eon" makes more sense to me, as this suggests that God's elect first die in Adam, and then they "live for the eon", given immortality before the rest of mankind. "Lived to the age" however doesn't make me understand this, to me this is not compatible with the rest of the scriptures on death and resurrection. To me the YLT seems to say that those who ate of the Tree of the Living One would live without ever dying to the age, a statement which isn't in harmony with the rest of Scripture. I'm repeating that this might be a language problem on my behalf!

The Concordant has sorted this out for me.

Now on to the next verse that has this "to the age" expression:

and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish--to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of my hand; (Joh 10:28 YLT)

Wouldn't it be more correct saying: They shall not perish -- in the age?
The age in which they shall not perish, will be the age of the Lake of Fire (which are God's elect, as someone pointed out), right?
Whew... this is hard to handle... Someone please assist!

Praying for understanding,
Eirik
« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 07:55:37 AM by eggi »
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gmik

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Re: Fruit of the tree of life
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2006, 06:04:29 PM »

Here is John 10:28 in Concordant:

28 And I am giving them life eonian, and they should by no means be perishing for the eon, and no one shall be snatching them out of My hand.

Hope this helps,
gena

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Kat

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Re: Fruit of the tree of life
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2006, 09:13:56 PM »

Hi Eirik,

I was looking into these verses you were talking about.

Gen 3:22  The LORD said, "These people now know the difference between right and wrong, just as we do. But they must not be allowed to eat fruit from the tree that lets them live forever."
Gen 3:23  So the LORD God sent them out of the Garden of Eden, where they would have to work the ground from which the man had been made.

This is a parable, so it has a spiritual message.
We all must eat of the 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil',
it is what we experience in this life, both good and evil.
Now as this is shown to happen to Abam and Eve,
it is an analogy of what happens in all our lives.
We all must have an experience of good and evil.

Heb 5:13  Anyone who has to drink milk is still a child, without any experience in the matter of right and wrong.
Heb 5:14  Solid food, on the other hand, is for adults, who through practice are able to distinguish between good and evil.

None are able to receive the kingdom (or be in the garden) unless God chooses us.
So we can not partake of the 'tree of life' until God drags us to Him,
and that seems to be what God is showing here with Adam and Eve.
They must leave the garden, which seems to be a shadow of the Kingdom.
After we partake of the 'tree of life' which repersents Christ (if we endure to the end),
we will be in the first resurrection at Christ' return.

We will receive life immortal, which means you can not die,
The life of the resurrected believer does not ever end.
Not because they are promised eternal life,
but rather because they are promised immortality or death-less-ness.

Aion is used in scripture to represent some limited age or dispensation.
Aeonial is simply 'of the ages',
and the ages, like the days of creations are periods in which God works.
The Hebrew word Olam is the equivalent od aion.
The definition of 'life eteral (aion)', is "to know God and Christ."

1John 5:20  And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given us an understanding so that we may know Him who is true. And we are in Him that is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and the everlasting life.

This is something I am just now looking into,
it may need more clarification.
I'm not sure this answered your question, but I hope it helped.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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eggi

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Re: Fruit of the tree of life
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2006, 05:54:07 AM »

Hi Kat,

Sure it helped! I appreciate your well-structured explanation. Although we are aware of these things, it can't hurt to repeat them, understanding is a cyclic process. I had this experience all the time, whenever I'm given new understanding, I feel a need to "go back" and look at the scriptures I already understood, and sometimes this makes me confused since the verses no longer appear exactly the same to me. That's how I felt in this case, I re-read Genesis 3:22 in YLT, and I couldn't figure out what "lived to the age" was supposed to mean. Your Concordant translations helped me back on track.

God bless you and keep you,
Eirik
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Here’s how to tell if you have faith; how do you live… what do you do… what do you accomplish in life… what are your goals… What is there about you that proves that you have this faith and belief inside of you? What?

gmik

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Re: Fruit of the tree of life
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2006, 03:40:32 PM »

I liked your scriptures too Kat.  Gosh, the word is so good. It never gets old or boring!!

gena
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Fruit of the tree of life
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2006, 08:09:40 PM »

Eirik

I like what you say that understanding is a cyclic process..... 8)

I do not assume or presume that you have not read Ray's  Is "EVERLASTING" Scriptural....on this site.....just that it may help to re-cycle that one :D....I know it answered questions I had not even thought of yet! ;D and I know if I practise what I preach to you, I will learn something new too!...

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2006, 08:11:20 PM by Arcturus »
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