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[hillsbororiver]

While perusing Ray's site and some of the e-mails I came across this response to an e-mailer's question, with all the negative things happening in the world around us and in some of our personal lives I think this may be a good thing to remember;

Why are we Here?

Christianity does not give you a straight answer because the doctrines of Christianity contradict most of the truths of God's Word.

There are answers, however.

I will give you some of the reasons "why we are here."

A great and wise creator GOD PUT US HERE. He started the human family.

God is not stupid, He had a grand and eternal purpose in mind for making mankind.

God has many attributes, powers, knowledge, etc., that obviously mankind DOES NOT. But, God DOES WANT us to have those same attributes, especially LOVE!

Qualities of character such as Love are not instantaneously created, they must be developed. That development takes a creation, circumstances, and time. And so, God creates all these things necessary for their development.

Although God is GOOD, He nonetheless has a knowledge and understanding of both good AND EVIL. And so we TOO must come to an understanding of both good and evil. Why? Because ALL KNOWLEDGE hinges on their proper understanding.

People say things without ever realizing how stupid or impossible their thoughts or statements are. Most Christians suppose that if Adam and Eve had not sinned, then we all would STILL, right now, be enjoying the beautiful life of happiness and bliss in a fabulous garden of Eden. NOT SO!!! Adam and Eve did  NOT appreciate what they had with God in the garden before they sinned. They had NO CONTRAST to compare it with.

Now here is a key piece of understanding and wisdom. God wants CHILDREN. God is building a FAMILY. Children are to grow up and have the attributes of their parents. But these things must be LEARNED BY EXPERIENCE!  Not only didn't Adam and Eve appreciate what they had, they ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT have appreciated what they had, because they experienced ONLY GOOD.

Try to come up with even ONE VIRTUE, such as love, patience, honesty, goodness, faithfulness, loyalty, obedience, bravery, etc., etc., etc., ANYTHING of a virtuous nature, that does not involve the overcoming of SOME FORM OF EVIL! There is your answer! There IS NO VIRTUE, NO CHARACTER, NO STABILITY of any kind in any one, except he overcomes some form of EVIL.

Now can you see why we are here? Now can you see why there is not only good, but so much evil in the world? It is necessary! God did not put it here simply to make us miserable! God is NOT in a battle for supremacy with Satan. God CREATED Satan. God USES Satan. And Satan too, will be saved after he has done all of his dirty work. God will make him repent.

God is enlarging His family into BILLIONS of sons and daughters.  This life is part of the training ground to be the very SONS OF GOD.

All evil including DEATH itself will be abolished when God has used them to bring His family to a level of love and righteousness that He desires. We will then inherit all that God has and all that God is. God is truly OUR FATHER.

I hope that helps your understanding a little better. Life will not always be miserable and painful as it may seem to you now. This too shall pass.

Sincerely,

Ray

[mongoose]

Thanks for posting that Joe.  It's one of my favorites.  When I got to the point (before finding Ray's site) where I was grateful for the negative things that had happened in my life, I started to wonder what was wrong with me and if I was finally losing it.  Whew....and trying to tell someone that you're grateful that some things happened...well, let's just say they seemed to think I was both lying and insane.  Reading this and Ray's other writings finally made me feel like it was ok to, well, be ok with these things.  And that's made me love God all the more and become more comfortable in trusting Him to both know and do what's best....even when I don't understand it.   

Love and peace in Christ,

mongoose

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Mongoose,

Yes, this view you describe of chastisement can only come through the maturing process and it holds true in the physical as well as the spiritual realms.

I remember as a kid when I complained to my Dad about something or other being too tough for me to handle or complete, instead of any sympathy or even empathy he would say "you'll survive, what doesn't kill you will make you stronger, now get moving."

Funny thing, although I hated that answer then, it turns out he was pretty much right on the money.

Joe

[Kat]

Hi Joe,

Now here is a key piece of understanding and wisdom. God wants CHILDREN. God is building a FAMILY. Children are to grow up and have the attributes of their parents. But these things must be LEARNED BY EXPERIENCE!  Not only didn't Adam and Eve appreciate what they had, they ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT have appreciated what they had, because they experienced ONLY GOOD.

That is what this life is all about.
We have to go through all the trials and tribulation now,
so we can truly appreciate what God has in store for us later.

1Peter 1:4  God has something stored up for you in heaven, where it will never decay or be ruined or disappear.
v.5  You have faith in God, whose power will protect you until the last day. Then he will save you, just as he has always planned to do.
v.6  On that day you will be glad, even if you have to go through many hard trials for a while.
v.7  Your faith will be like gold that has been tested in a fire. And these trials will prove that your faith is worth much more than gold that can be destroyed. They will show that you will be given praise and honor and glory when Jesus Christ returns.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[dogcombat]

I remember reading a column by Leonard Pitts, Jr. regarding "When God Talks, will we listen?".  In it, Pitts tells of the Lord sharing with him that He knows about questions of the suffering folks endure, saying:
 "You want a world without pain, suffering, or loss.  But without those there would be no healing, redemption or appreciation".   

I haven't been able to find that column (which he wrote in the late 90's after a Indian cleric stated a tsunami was God's judgement on another sect he (the cleric) didn't care for),  but I mentioned it because we are still discovering God's Purpose for our lives and His Purpose will be carried out

Ches

[Deborah-Leigh]

This is encouraging. Thank you Joe....

Here's to add hope....

Isaiah 43 : 1-3 ; 18-21( Word on the Street version by rob lacey)

Your creator says this; "Don't panic! I've brought you back. I've picked you out by your first name - you belong to me. When lifes floods threaten to sweep you away, I'll be holding you: you're not shifting! When forest fires sweep through your campsite, I'll be directing it round your tent; you won't even get singed, 'cos I'm God, your Liberator.
Wipe your memory banks; quit living in the past. Look, I'm into new stuff; it's just coming to the boil. Can't you sense it? I'm building a road through the wasteland, and I'm redirecting rivers alongside it. The wild dogs and foxes give me respect because I'm rejuvenating their deserted land. My people will drink fresh water on their way back home - they're MINE AND I MADE THEM TO CELEBRATE ME.

Arcturus....in the making

[Deborah-Leigh]

Kat

You write "It would be better to read Ray's articles then this Rob Lacey...."

You are correct. You had better read Ray's articles....I am happy to read alternative translations.

A good Ray article to read Kat is the one on Rays letter 2 James Kennedy, but I've already recommended that in another reply to you

Arcturus

[lasohe]

Help! I still could not grasp why we are here!

I still could not see His purpose in building a human family. Yes, He puts us here but He also takes us away from this earth. Some earlier, some later. Some knowing Him while others rejecting Him. What about babies who do not know Him? What is God telling us by His action?

We were made to develop our character. But Jesus was created with all the qualities of character such as Love. The father is in Him and He in the father. They are one. How come Jesus does not need the development of such qualities. God made Jesus perfect but why are we not perfect and need to be developed? What is God telling us by His action?

God can create one sinned or sinless. Jesus was made no sin. We are made sinned.  God can do whatever He likes. But why did He made the difference? Why did the Potter made two types of different pots - sinned and sinless? Why a perfect God taint His own creation with the intention to cleanse it back? What is God telling us by His action?

These thoughts are beyond me.

lasohe

[SandyFla]

Hi Lasohe,

Unfortunately, God doesn't tell us why He does things the way He does. Here's a passage that Paul used when people were asking why God chose to have mercy on some and to harden others from Romans 9:19-24:

"Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

I wish God had explained it to us in His Word, but as far as I know, this is something we just have to accept and trust that He knows what He is doing.

Sandy

[gmik]

Hi Mongoose,

Yes, this view you describe of chastisement can only come through the maturing process and it holds true in the physical as well as the spiritual realms.

I remember as a kid when I complained to my Dad about something or other being too tough for me to handle or complete, instead of any sympathy or even empathy he would say "you'll survive, what doesn't kill you will make you stronger, now get moving."

Funny thing, although I hated that answer then, it turns out he was pretty much right on the money.

Joe

As a teacher, I find most parents want to shield their children (no matter what age) from ANY kind of life's lessons.  They are such enablers and want their children to have a perfect, stress free life, and nothing negative ever to happen to them.  Almost like a god-given right.  I don't know how the youngest of our generations will behave as adults. I see our society like that even now.  You owe me.  Its my right.  blah blah blah, me me me... we've lost that 'pioneer' stock for sure.

gena

[andrevan]

Help! I still could not grasp why we are here!

Dear Lasohe.
My thoughts to your plea is this: everything exists ultimately for God's glory. Our existence in the end is to glorify God.

The elect were created to develop God's character, through many trials and tribulations. The called and the rest of mankind will also develop these characteristics later.
The way I see this is that just as good, wise parents train and chastise their children to develop good characteristics so that the children will [besides excelling at life] "glorify" their parents, bringing their parents the "marveling" of society, so God our Father is doing a similar but more perfect thing in His children. This is how I understand it.

What was one of Jesus' prays to the Father? "These things speaks Jesus, and lifting His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, come has the hour. Glorify Thy Son, that Thy Son should be glorifying Thee" John 17:1

and,

"I glorify Thee on the earth, finishing the work which Thou hast given Me, that I should be doing it." John 17:4 [CLV]

Everything exists for God's glory, amen.

The peace of God be with you.
Andrevan.

[orion77]

Good thread Joe,

Even Jesus had to 'learn' obedience.

(Heb 5:8 LITV)  though being a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered

(Heb 5:9 LITV)  and having been perfected, He came to be the Author of eternal salvation to all the ones obeying Him,


I think it is all for His glory to show mercy:

(Rom 11:30 LITV)  For as you then also disobeyed God, but now have obtained mercy by the disobedience of these,

(Rom 11:31 LITV)  so also these now have disobeyed, so that they also may obtain mercy by your mercy.

(Rom 11:32 LITV)  For God shut up all into disobedience, that He may show mercy to all.


I believe one of the most important things we can learn, in following Christ is in showing this towards others:

(Rom 5:10 LITV)  For if while being enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life;

This is an amazing verse, that shows the greatness in God.  Being obedient is allowing God to let these things grow within us.  I have been visiting other forums lately and see many so-called christians constantly lash out at others through name calling and utter comtempt for those who believe differently than they do.  It truly amazes me, it's not the ones who don't believe, but the ones who profess to believe.  They do not show this love at all towards their neighbor.

God bless,

Gary