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[bazleroux]

I have been trying to find a church in Johannesburg, South Africa, that preaches the truths that Ray has blessed me with, but have had no luck. Does anyone out there know of a "church" in South Africa where we can join together and get the word?

Any help will be appreciated.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Bazleroux

.......You perhaps will come to realize that we of like mind are scattered  all over the world with little if any contact outside of the spirit!....I think only Ray has bible study every month and this doesn'Teven draw the thousands who attend a Joel Osteen Church meeting or a Joyce Meyer Convention. Us lot here are VERY RARE.   I do not think you should entertain ANY hope of ever finding a Church that is teaching what Ray offers. Besides, it is Satan who has his throne in the Churches so I do not believe Ray would even go there!   Also Ray writes:


Everyone is welcome to copy the material on this site and freely distribute it to others. You do not need permission from us to do this. All we ask is that you do not in any way, CHANGE, PLAGIARIZE or SELL any material from bible-truths.com.

....so to even start a "Church" would invite PLAGIARIZATION....somewhere....somehow....because we all have our own opinions even if we are like minded!......

Ray wrote in an e-mail responce....Every time he opens his bible, he is at Church.  I got much comfort in this example to me as I was booted out of Mystery Babylon (the Church kingdom)....and God dragged me here to this site where I have learnt and grown more than in all my Church going days multiplied by a thousand!.

Hope this is of some encouragement to you........

Arcturus

[gmik]

A very good response Arc.

Baselroux, welcome to our forum.  We are kinda all in the " same boat " with no "building" to assemble with like minded believers. I come to this forum a couple of times a day to get fed the meat of the word, and to fellowship with believers around the world!!

The elect are a small # compared to churchianity.

My sister visited South Africa and said it was a VERY christianized country.  Would you agree with that??

God Bless you both,
gena

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi again Bazleroux

I have just got this off Ray's e-mail responces:

    Dear Barry:

    No, I don't, Barry. There is the same problem for believers worldwide. Too many churches not enough truth. There are no institutionalized denominations or churches that teach the truth of the Scriptures. I know of none.  There may be small scattered (salt) groups that teach the truth, but I am not in contact with any of them. You can if you wish join our Discussion Forum at the bottom of our home page. We have many readers from South Africa. Perhaps you can find others who believe in your area.

    God be with you,

    Ray

I like what Ray said...."There are NO institutionalized denominations or churches that teach the truth of the Scriptures. I know of NONE!....."

Arcturus

[sansmile]

Hi,
Well I live in London  UK and realize we are really blessed. Three of us fellowship and have study at least once a month at my home. We use Ray's teaching to help us. When my daughters visit our numbers increase to 6 
Sansmile.

[Deborah-Leigh]

I Sansmile

I used to be a Cell Leader and I find that this is causing me to shy away from gatherings or meetings even with fellow students in the teachings that Ray is sharing. ...and no doubt I perhaps am missing out because people who gather together inside Mystery Babylon must surely be very different from those who gather in the spirit of truth.... 

We were in London for five weeks earlier this year but that was before I was led to Rays site. I know I'd call you if I were to visit London again and I'd look forward to it too   You are blessed!

Arcturus...

[sansmile]

Hi again,
Please do arcturus and anyone else passing through

God Bless
Sansmile (sandie)

[brothertoall]

bazleroux ,

 God has led you to a wonderful fellowship here. We all may not be able to meet face to face but our spirit is one in the Lord. To me personally it is a wonderful blessing to have that with you all.

bobby

[hart4god]

Hey Bazleroux, ArcTurus, Gena and Sans-

this, of course is a relevant topic as we all try to get the Babylonian system out of our heads and hearts.....

I think that the concept of "church" whether in an institutional setting or a home setting if not fundamentally corrupt will ultimately lead to corruption simply because it is too much for our flesh:

in our flesh we idloized those who are more learned, wise, experienced, etc.
in our flesh we stop being accountable to the one true God and instead bow down to man
in our flesh we create a system that exerts authority over us in place of the spirit of God through the Word.
in our flesh we come to pride over "our group" that is "RIGHT"

but then again maybe these are just my problems and temptations? But church fellowship for me always fit into those things-

I think you can see where this is leading. I have had so much experience with the organization of church that it could fill many lifetimes... and in my passion for finding and loving the true church of Jesus Christ, I finally found that it does not exist anywhere other  than in the hearts of believers who desire the Truth at all costs.

and the institutions of man produce no good things in this area. in fact I believe they are a danger for those who love the Truth.

I wish I could fellowships face to face with someone who desire truth and would not shrink back at the costs and coflicts it will bring- but there are none that I know in my area. and maybe that is for the best because my dependence is so completely on the Lord for His strength to continue.....

I understand that it is natural to see others who are like-minded for support, fellowship and encouragement but sometimes that desire can be the ruin of us because we are indoctrinated in the ways of the flesh.

I liked how some mentioned meeting once a month- less risks there for the exaltation of man, and the patters of the old ways to exert  influence.

Although being outside the instutional church is often lonely and hard, it has produced a profound sense of peace as I am fully able to follow after the Truth without condemnation or coflict.

God Bless as you all find true fellowship in His Spirit- and at this forum which is "just right" for stirring me up toward love and good deeds and the love of Truth.

God is faithful to meet all the needs we have to be sustained in truth and love!

judie h.

[sansmile]

Hi Hart4God,
I do understaand what you mean, but through having our fellowship, God is revealing to us the idols of our heart. Many times in the beginning ( of our fellowships )we were quick to see the faults in others. But He has truly blessed us all by showing us the beast in ourselves. We ask the Holy Spirit to lead us when we get together and it has been awesome the truths He has revealed to us. We are very aware that Ray is a man, like us,  and so we study Gods word as a group and the confirmation actually comes from Rays teachings. We are family, in that the group consists of myself, my husband and my sister-in-law, which sometimes can lead to even more fleshly conflict, but i can honestly see the spiritual growth in us all.

God Bless  Sansmile   (Sandie)

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Hart4God



You write :...." in our flesh we idloized those who are more learned, wise, experienced, etc.
in our flesh we stop being accountable to the one true God and instead bow down to man
in our flesh we create a system that exerts authority over us in place of the spirit of God through the Word.
in our flesh we come to pride over "our group" that is "RIGHT"

For me the above shows how it actually is and I was happy for this reminder and edification. A Scripture that I enjoy is   1 Cor 2 : 2 "For I have resolved to know nothing, to be acquinted with nothing, to make a display of the knowledge of nothing, and to be conscious of nothing among you except Jesus Christ the Messiah and Him crucified."

I perfer to follow this attitude but have not yet come into the purity of spirit with this yet. I desire to because I know...who are we anyway. We are dust! We are soul that will sleep then wake again to either join Christ or answer to God! The more we are in the image of Christ....who is Spirit and Truth....the more we will be suffering now. I want to encourage you hart4God. I believe you are on the very right track!

Then you say : ...."and the institutions of man produce no good things in this area. in fact I believe they are a danger for those who love the Truth. "

For me this is a RELATIVE statement that can be contested because God calls His Elect to COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE......the call is to come out of Mystery Babylon, THE CHURCH....!....Many are called but few are chosen......


Arcturus   

[sansmile]

Hi again  Hart4God,

We have to have been in those institutions to Come out of her!
I thank God for the churches  because without them, we would not recognise truth. We need the knowledge of lies to recognise truth. We need the knowledge of evil to recognise good.

Paul says:

((Gal 5:10)  I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

(Gal 5:13)  For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

(Gal 5:14)  For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

(Gal 5:15)  But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

(Gal 5:16)  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

(Gal 5:17)  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

(Gal 5:18)  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gods plan is all around us, His will ....will be done.


(1Pe 3:12)  For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.


(1Pe 3:13)  And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?

(1Pe 3:14)  But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

(1Pe 3:15)  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

(1Pe 3:16)  Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

(1Pe 3:17)  For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.



What a peace and joy it is to know that ALL men will be saved. Thats the gospel we should be spreading FREELY!  Thats the good news!  God has shown us these truths and we should, with Him in our hearts ,be able to fellowship with those who are of the same mind.....ONE mind .....the mind of Christ.


What a loving God we have, i pray each day for agape love. To follow His commandment of loving others as He has loved me,  not have fear in my heart but the knowledge, that with Him in me He will speak through me. All glory to our Father , who gave His son to set us free.


Oh, God i love you.   Sansmile ( sandie)

[Deborah-Leigh]

Sandie

Those scriptures are beautiful and edifying. Thank you!

Having been bitten and made merchandise of by Mystery Babylon....I hope never to return.

Your bible study group sounds wonderful!

Arcturus..

[hart4god]

HEY,

thanks for the feedback on my church attitudes:
Like you Arcturus, I  have been made merchandise of many churches and the disappointments with church leaders run so deep. MOst of the dear people I became friends with in church settings were awesome loving ( and scared and tortured) individuals. Power corrupts and it just hurts so much to see all the abuse against many unwitting people......

One questions tho- The Lord calls His people out of Babylon- but is it always necessary for everyone to always have to walk through that gauntlet? can some (like my kids) never engage in those heretical doctrines and practices and still be part of the Kingdom to come???

or is it hopeless? like a dog to his vomit?

I am with you - never to return to the place of such hurt- yet you are all so right I did learn so much in those places.

I would cry so much for God to make the church w/o spot or wrinkle and in some ways I know I am disappointed that it never came out like I expected and it has cost me much (oh, boo hoo, right???)

I miss many things about church- seeing the people every week, the bonds, the activities, but they always came with a subtle denying of what was in me-

I certainly have no problems with people who gather, with and who fighting the temptations of babylon,  encourage one another  in the truth. Around here the problem is that most of us succumb to appointing and revering leaders and we institutionalize everything we do even the home Bible fellowship to the point it is just a mini-babylon clone.

I am sorry that I let my wounded flesh rail against someone else's flesh-
there is some divine humor in that I am sure 

all your comments about my comments were so good- I am glad that I put my foot in my mouth in order to hear those things.
love to you all,
judie h.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Hart4god

I appreciate your confirming insights regarding Babylon. I have been pondering this thread all day today.

My thoughts turned to  King David and I recalled that Ray had said that he is predestined for the Lake of Fire White Throne Judgement (ref. Mobile Conference)...this thought took me to what Jesus said in Matt 5 : 20..."Unless your righteousness is more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Knowing that I am accountable to God....I do not want to persuade, agree or encourage anyone to return to Mystery Babylon or compromise with anyone who is half in Mystery Babylon and half in Bible-Truths. That for me would be equivalent to endorsement by aiding and abetting and making place for  heinous corruption like lacing the banquet of God with Cyanide!

Perhaps this is harsh sounding but I realize that Jesus did say that I can not serve God and Mamon - So I can't and for me....that's that! I can not run with the foxs and hunt with the hounds. I can't have my cake and eat it too. I can't fool God. I can and have fooled myself in the past, and so badly  that I thought that I'd fooled both me and God at the same time. That is the height of arrogance and hypocrisy and I have been there.... hart4god...in real...I am all by my self....foolishness! Some people say they have died, gone to Hell and been given another chance to live again. That is nonsence. But being a fool. That is not nonsence.

 I understand now that God saw me through this process of fooling myself and rescued me from it too. Here's the shocking part...I did not want to be rescued or give up an idol in my heart. I did not know that  a God rescue opperation looked like a knock down drag out....God showed me that the idol I did not want to let go of, had to be smashed ....and repented of.

I was enjoying Church fellowship. You  see I wouldn 't let it go. I liked the scene like (hanging gardens of Babylon)..it looked great...Fellowship, approval, admiration, praise and worship entertainment, preaching, Yes Oh YES Preaching even the foolishness of preaching...I got my fix and God had to fix my Church delusion, Church addiction, Church dependency because I was a Church junky...but now I am sober!....ALL thanks to God! HE released the hold of Mystery Babylon off me...and I depend on GOD ALONE to keep it that way from now on...I recall what happened to King Solomon in all his wisdom, he fell...and King Saul...he fell....and King David...he also did not get out of having to be in the White Throne Judgement....

I posted on a thread in this forum, some of what I was experiencing at the time this happened not too long ago, under the thread titled "I am Struck"

My idol was smashed and I was given repentance through the goodness of God.

You ask...."is it always necessary for everyone to always have to walk through that gauntlet?"  My opinion on this is.... NO... because God does not call all of us and He certainly only chooses few of us. The one's He chooses are proven faithful through the gauntlet....and the many He calls do not make it. I'd rather have the gauntlet now than the Lake of Fire later!

As for kids....I too am a parent...I find myself asking God to give my son favor to not go into the White Throne Judgement and then I realize that my request of God may be entirely self serving because I do not want my son to suffer....Matt 16:23..."Get behind me Satan! You are in My way, an offense and a hindrance and a snare to Me, FOR YOU ARE MINDING WHAT PARTAKES NOT OF THE NATURE AND QUALITY OF GOD, BUT OF MEN."

As a parent I want the best for my son...his safety....his happiness....his security....and this does not mind or partake of the nature or quality of God. It says to God rather, I don't trust your wisdom with my son God, I do not believe that you are the resurrection and the life, I do not feel confident in your authority over satan so please God take care of my son!....Do you see what I mean?.....

I do not think trusting God is hopeless.....I believe knowing God is God will correct our Peter attitude of self preservation....God is showing me to not tell Him what to do, not to tell Him how to do it and to get down to Thy will be done Father whether it be Judgement now or Lake of Fire later. I know that God knows my heart. For me I ask for judgment now with His Mercy and Favor to help me endure in peace and trust. For my loved ones He knows I desire the same and He is leading me to say to Him...Thy will be done....You know my will....but Father....Thy will....be done.

The funny thing is.....it will be....and in the end we all will be with God. ....The call is...Fear not....Trust in God with all your heart and all your might for He is faithful.

Arcturus....  ..in training

[bazleroux]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your kind words of comfort and guidance.

My problem is that my fiance has not seen the truths the Lord has shown us, such as eternal torture in hell being total garbage, etc. so she has said that she doesn't mind changing churches for me, as I dont want to go to the church we used to go to anymore.

I agree that we need to seek Christ alone, and not get polluted with the worlds system or christiandom, but what do I tell her?

Looking forward to your reply.

Barry.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Bazleroux

Tell her what you told us....."we need to seek Christ alone, and not get polluted with the worlds system or christiandom..."

Let us know what happens...........or if there are any questions.......

Arcturus