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Ever Felt Like This?
MG:
I think that Job's words did show that he knew that God was Sovereign. He lost his children in a tragic death. He lost his possesions at the hand of an enemy. He lost all his servents at the hand of an enemy. He lost his reputation and he lost his health in one day.
Job 1
20 Then Job arose, and rent his robe, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped;
21 and he said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: Jehovah gave, and Jehovah hath taken away; blessed be the name of Jehovah.
22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Job did not blame the enemy or the evil one or anyone else. He knew it was God that caused this evil to come upon him. The carnal man rose up in defense of itself within Job. It is my experience that the carnal will always rise up against God. It cannot subject itself to God nor does it want to. The carnal man cannot learn. It must die and it dies kicking and screaming. It spits in God's face as it dies. We cannot tame that beast. Only the refiners fire can burn it away. It is the suffering in my life that brings my carnality to the light.
When I watch my grandson suffer so much I feel anger within. God why do you cause so much suffering with my grandson. Can't you at least let him have a childhood. He is only 12 and has suffered for years. He lies in bed with severe headaches every day. He broke his wrist last month and broke his foot this month. He cries pleading to be normal. All he wants to do is play and go to school and have friends. My heart breaks and I defy you in anger. My mind wants to subject to your will in his life. My evil heart cries out in anger and desperation. Only you can burn off that evil within my heart that opposes your will. I repent of that part of me which is not in subjection. Only you can put it in subjection. Through suffering myself I will no longer live in the will of man, but in the will of God. Expose every part of me that is not in subjection to your will.
Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I know not: for not what I would, that do I practise; but what I hate, that I do.
16 But if what I would not, that I do, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not.
19 For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise.
20 But if what I would not, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me.
21 I find then the law, that, to me who would do good, evil is present.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members.
24 Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
joyful1:
Patrick-- you LIKE listening to a donkey?? :) what???
MG--
do you find that the struggle for yourself is hard enough...but when a child that you feel responsible for is involved....its even harder?? I know that we must lean on Him for our understanding...but I know the struggle that you feel....having a special needs son myself, that suffers so much. God be with you and your grandson today...in a special way!
much love,
Joyce
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Joe and MG
The link between Job 7 and Romans 7 was a gift to me.
I sent a PM to Kat today and while writting it, I was reminded of notes I took regarding the Scripture Job 7. I returned to my notes where I found something quite interesting. In the one year I noted in blue ink that Job 7 is what God does. In the following year I added to this observation in red ink that this is what God does not do! God is love.
Job 7...What God does not do! God is Love.
And now since being taught about Absolute v's Relative I see that Job 7 is relative to mans thinking and experience and that God is love is absolute!
From Romans 7 MG vs 10..And the very legal ordinance which was designed and intended to bring life actually proved to mean to me death.
Put this scripture together with Gen 3 : 3...Ie...The command not to eat from the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden.
Then with Romans 7 : 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity and getting a hold on me from the commandment, beguiled and entrapped and cheated me, and using it as a weapon, killed me.
Put this scripture together with 1 cor 15 : 56 The strength of sin is the law....
And now put this together with Rom 7 : 13....so we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God's good commandment for its own evil purposes.
...... or as the teaching to us through Ray points out in Absoute v/s Relative in GOD IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ETERNAL FATE OF AFRICANS
A Sermon by:
James Kennedy, A.B., M.Div., M.Th., D.D.,
D.Sac.Lit., PhD., Litt.D., D.Sac.Theol., D. Humane Let.
A Critique by: L. Ray Smith
RELATIVE VS. ABSOLUTE
If a theologian can't see the "absolute" versus the "relative" in Scripture, he is in no position to teach anyone.
A little boys asks: "Why did God say in Gen. 3:9: 'Where art thou [Adam]?' Mommy says that God knows everything." (I Jn 3:20). You say, "Of course God knew where Adam was. Adam sinned. Adam felt bad. He thought he could hide from God. God was condescending to man's level. It was for Adam's benefit that God asked, 'Where art thou Adam?'" You say, "That's not a problem. That's easy to understand and answer. It's stupid to think that God didn't know where Adam was."
And, of course, we have Scriptural proof that God knew where Adam was because "He [God] knows all" (I Jn 3:20)
Neither did our Lord ask questions out of ignorance:
"Believe ye that I am able to do this?" (Matt. 9:28)
"Who is my mother, and who are my brethren?" (Matt. 12:48)
"How many loaves have ye?" (Matt. 15:34)
"Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?" (Matt. 116:13)
Christ asked dozens of questions during His ministry. But He already knew all the answers:
" ... because of His knowing ALL men ... " (Matt. 21:27).
Christ even answered questions by asking questions. The Pharisees asked why His disciples transgressed the "traditions." Our Lord knew how to "answer a fool according to his folly" (Prov. 26:5) by asking: "Wherefore are you also transgressing the precept of God because of your tradition?" (Mat. 15:3)
This brings up another apparent contradiction, however, because Prov. 26:4 says: "answer not a fool according to his folly ... " Our Lord knew how to do that as well: "Neither am I telling you by what authority I am doing these things." (Mat. 21:27). These two scriptures in Proverbs should teach us to never pit one verse of Scripture against another. Verse 4 and 5 do not contradict. They are both true.
So if it's stupid to think that God didn't really know where Adam was, a relative statement condescending to man's level, isn't it then, likewise, stupid to believe that God contradicts Himself in the following verses:
THE RELATIVE:
THE ABSOLUTE:
" ... seek, and ye shall find ... " (Mat. 7:7) "Not one is seeking out God" (Rom. 3:11)
"God changed His mind" (Ex. 32:14) "God is not a man Who changes His mind" (I Sam. 15:29)
" ... choose you this day whom ye will serve." (Josh. 24:15) "Ye have not chosen me,
but I have chosen you ... " (Jn. 15:16)
" ... whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God ... " (I Jn. 3:10) "All is of God" (II Cor. 5:18)
"Zechariah was just before God" (Lk. 1:5) (Comparing him to the corrupt priests) "Not one is just" (Rom. 3:10)
(Comparing man with God)
One is the "relative" the other is the "absolute." One is from man's point of view, comparing men with men, the other is from God's point of view. One shows how a thing is perceived while the other shows how it actually is. One is for minors while the other is for the mature.
Both Scriptures are true. The relative is true and the absolute is true. They do not contradict. However, one really is "relative" while the other is "absolute."
Theologians are always taking Scriptures that speak of the relative, from man's point of view, and insist that these verses are absolute. By doing this they commit a double sin. Because then they insist that these relative truths actually nullify God's absolute declarations. They won't admit to this in their own words, but this is what they do when they retain the "relative" at the expense of rejecting the "absolute."
Joe I think this is what Job did. I think Job 7 shows and testifies to Job seeing God in the RELATIVE sence and not the ABSOLUTE.
God corrected Job!....then blessed him! Paul identified both Relative and Absolute. Rom 7. We are called to see in the Absolute only!.....Called to be Manifested Sons and Daughters of God......Surely the manifested Sons and Daughters of God see God only in Absolute terms?
Arcturus :)
hillsbororiver:
Arcturus,
Once again you put some very interesting observations on the table. I see Job looking at God with carnal eyes (human understanding) as we all do at first, when our eyes are opened by His Spirit we see Him in an entirely new Light.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Joe
Just a thought....
Brothers and Sisters......Relative.....as with human thinking.
Sons and Daughters....Absolute and in God's Will.
What do you think? This also ties up with the Elect somehow too!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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