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[angie]

Hello everyone,

Forgive me, if this post comes out a bit muddled, It's because my thinking is a bit muddled just now on this subject.
I have had a few thoughts regarding what constitutes a valid marriage, not in the eyes of the law or man, but in the eyes of God.

I was thinking about how the church is 'mystery babylon' and the  'seat of Satan' etc and how we are told to '...come out of her...'
This being the case and actually 'coming out', what then of marriage vows?
I have heard people say that if you were to be married a second time, a minister would allow it in his church if the first one was in a register office and therefore not sanctioned by God and so this time (2nd) in the eyes of God would really be the first! This sounds daft to me...is it?

Also, there are scriptures regarding divorce and divorcees but if we are all exactly where God wants us to be, having lived the life He mapped out for us, if divorce and remarriage figures in one's life, then surely that was part of the plan for us too, yes? Are these scriptures in fact even talking about physical carnal relationships with each other seeing as Christ will 'marry' his 'bride' when the time comes?

I get the feeling that a marriage in the eyes of God is one where both parties make vows to each other from the heart in the presence and witness of the Lord. [who is already where I am and not in any building officiated by a mortal man]

Legally, in this country you can 'live' with someone for a year then have all legal rights associated with being a spouse, so that is not the real issue if you can be married in mind and heart from the start.  I am interested only in what God would see as valid. With all this in mind, if someone marries 'legally', but it is not from 'the heart' [e.g was pressured into doing it through personal and/or cultural demands] could we consider this to count truly as a marriage before God?

Then if we say that yes, we can be married from the heart before God as our witness without officialdom, The question then is, what if only one party believes in the sovereignty of God but certainly does love and want to commit his life to the other, and happy for that other to pray to God to witness? What did they do in the beginning, wasn't it God who made Eve for Adam? I don't recollect a preacher or official being mentioned anywhere. Is there any such scripture at all, anywhere,that says we must be married in a church or before any official? I can't find one so if anyone knows of one, could they post it here?

I would be interested in any and all views others here might have on this subject.

Angie

[gmik]

Wow.  Interesting & tough questions.

Thirty-three years ago my husband & I said "vows" before each other & God(so we thought & presumed).  A couple of weeks later we had the traditional wedding(to be legal in the state).

I don't know if that was right or OK or what.  But God has surely been with us leading & guiding gently all those years.  We were blessed w/ 3 great kids, good jobs, health etc. And we both have been dragged to Ray's teaching.

I know the forum will come up with scriptures for you.  I have no earthshaking depth of wisdom.  If you look at the OT there was a lot of polygamy going on, but I don't think that was the best way.

I know many who really really think that they didn't marry who God had in mind for them.  They feel stuck.  Some believe that whomever you first slept with is who you are really married to.

Jesus didn't really teach a whole lot on it.  Paul talks about it in 1Cor7.

I think the other posters will help us understand physically & spiritually what it all means.

gena

[angie]

Hi gena,

You and your husband are surely married in the eyes of the Lord. You said your vows to each other from the heart out of love for each other. I don't think it would have mattered if you had both been alone with God in your front room! Scriptues tell us about the churches in houses. You also took care of the then legal state requirement separately. were you and your husband both 'christian' at the time?

Angie

[gmik]

Yes, we were both Christians.  We had dated for 3 years and the first 2 years we were NOT serving Him at all.

My husband had picked up the book "Late Great Planet Earth" on the way to get a 6-pack and to see another girl . Instead he brought the book to my apartment.  It literally scaird him into the kingdom.  Not that we agree w/ that stuff now.  Then before my very eyes this man changed!!!!!! We were both pretty wordly(pot & sleeping around,drinking) but he just stopped!!

So....I started remembering scriptures and I found a bible and started reading it.  My apartment had been robbed and I was very afraid.  Couldn't sleep etc..  When I accepted Jesus as my Saviour in my bedroom around 2 AM, I felt His presence and I got in bed and slept like a baby.

We both never looked back.  Lost all of our "friends", had family members mad at us. Found a nearby church-Lutheran-made new friends.  Devoured the Bible and found out soon that we really were Jesus believers not church believers so we moved on to several churches and home fellowships for the next 33 years  and eventually came to Rays site.

We got "saved" in March and married in Dec.  He read CS Lewis' Mere Christianity and took the explanation of love in the book and said "Well, thats what I feel about Gena"  So I said its marriage or missionary work!!  WE picked marriage

Didn't mean to get into my testimony.  Good to think of those things once in awhile.  To see how God used Christendom & Babylon to call us to Himself.  Whew!!  It was nothing of us but all HIM.

[orion77]

Hello Angie,

Very interesting subject.  I have been with the same woman for 27 years now, but we are not legally married.  It has never been because we don't want to, but she is hearing impaired and draws a small check and has very good health insurance, in which I have never been able to offset from my work.  

By us getting legally married she would lose some of her independence, her check and health insurance would stop.  So, out of love and respect for her own bit of independence we have never been legally married, although in my heart she has always been my wife.

The holier than thou, types look down upon this relationship, but it is only out of love and respect for each other that we are still together after all these years.

Knowing what I know now, I am not really sure who I would want to marry us anyways.  Absolutely, positively would not be an orthodox preacher.  Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with that.

Is it more of a sin not in legally marrying her and her losing the check and insurance, or not marrying her and keeping her independence?  I have often over the years thought about this, but always deep in my heart the important thing is we only have each others comfort in thought.  So, judge or not judge, does not matter to me.  I leave it up to my Father in heaven.

God bless,

Gary

[jennie]

I'm sorry ya'll but things like this just make me so mad! To have a religion or whatever say you can't get married in a church unless your first marriage was done by a justice of peace( that's what we call it here). Nothing wrong with being married by a j.p. but who are we to judge someones's past marriages, relationships and so on! My daughter just got married on top of our mountains on the outside. Maybe it took since we were up so high...you know closer to God! She didn't get married in a church and I know that God is blessing her in her marriage!
I have to tell ya'll about this. My cousin was getting married several years ago. Her husband had been married before. His 1st wife had  had an affair and left him. He didn't have much choice in the matter. My cousin hadn't been married before. They attended, faithfully, a church they loved. They asked the pastor to do their marriage service and he said he couldn't because the young man had been married before. My cousin was crushed! My heart just broke for her. I just don't think we , or at least myself. have a right to judge anyone. God is the only one sho knows hearts. Much love, Jennie

[ned]

After a search of 'marriage' in E-Sword, many of the NT scriptures (in CEV) say the same thing: stay faithful in marriage.

But here's some interesting verses:

(CEV)
1Co 7:6  In my opinion that is what should be done, though I don't know of anything the Lord said about this matter.

1Co 7:12 I don't know of anything else the Lord said about marriage. All I can do is to give you my own advice. If your wife isn't a follower of the Lord, but is willing to stay with you, don't divorce her.

Paul just finished speaking to the Corinthians about marriage, their question to him was: Is it best for people not to marry?
Basically he says to avoid fornication, they should marry. Then twice, as above, he tells them the advice is his own, not from a commandment received from God.

I guess what I'm saying is there is not alot of instruction regarding marriage (other than keeping it faithful) in the New Testament. Therefore, I think where marraige is concerned, this verse would apply:

(CEV)  Jam4:17 If you don't do what you know is right, you have sinned.

Funny how most (or all?) wordly governments realize that if two are not married, but living together (for more than a year), they are equal to being married. God runs the government too.

Strongs definition - "marriage"
H5772   עונה   ‛ônâh   o-naw'
From an unused root apparently meaning to dwell together; (sexual) cohabitation: - duty of marriage.

My guess is a "wedding" follows after the traditions of men. 
To be faithful to our partner, to treat and love them as we would want to be treated and loved, is what God is looking for.

Love,
Marie

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Marie

Your Strongs definition - "marriage"
H5772   עונה   ‛ônâh   o-naw'
From an unused root apparently meaning to dwell together; (sexual) cohabitation: - duty of marriage".......This pretty much settles it for me. I appreciate the insight and think it will clarify and put to rest many issues raised in this thread.

HUSBANDS

Col 3 : 19 ...love your wives, be affectionate and sympathetic with them and do not be harsh or bitter or resentful towards them.
Go all out in love for your wives. Don't take advantage of them.

Eph 5 : 28...nourish and carefullly protect and cherish them

1 Peter 3 : 7...live considerately with your wife, with an intelligent recognition of the marriage relation, honouring the woman as physically the weaker but realizing that you are joint heirs of the Grace, Gods unmerited favor of life, in order that your prayers may not be hindered and cut off otherwise you can not pray effectively

WIVES

Col 3 : 28...be subject to your husband, subordinate and adapt as it is fit in the Lord. Understand and support your husbands by submitting to thein in ways that honour the Lord.

Prov 12 : 4 .,...Be a virtuous and worthy wife, earnest and strong in character...a crowning joy to her husband...

Eph 5 : 33...respect, notice, regard, honour, prefer, venerate, esteem, praise, love and admire your husband.

1 Peter 3 : 6....let nothing terrify you,  not giving way to hysterical fears or letting anxieties unnerve you.

Husbands and Wives:

1 Cor 11 : 3  In a marriage relationship, there is authority from Christ to husband, and from husband to wife. The authority of Christ is the authority of God.  Any man who speaks with God or about God in a way that shows a lack of respect for the authority of Christ, dishonors Christ. In the same way, a wife who speaks with God in a way that shows a lack of respect for the authority of her husband, dishonors her husband. Worse, she dishonors herself - an ugly sight.    Realize that Christ is the Head of every man, the head of a woman is her husband, and the Head of Christ is God  .................

Peace to all marriages!

Arcturus