Spiritual Help

[vonmarschall]

Hey all,

I didn't want to come into this room and whine tonight, but I am so frustrated I have no where else to turn.  Universal salvation through Christ and a world saved in it's entirety by a loving God is the only thing I have found so far in life that makes sense to me.

I am 36, married and have two great boys.  I also have suffered from depression, OCD and anxiety throughout most of my life.  I take meds for this, but due to emotional numbness I have been thinking about seeing what life is like not on meds.

For many years now, my passion in life has been seeking God.  I also cannot stand "religion" or the "doctrines of humans."  I also feel I have had some pretty miraculous signs in my time as well.  I have a good life and every reason to be happy.

Here is the thing.  I am a major perfectionist, so I guess self forgiveness is a hard thing for me.  I usually have no problem forgiving others.  I think of a piece of scripture very often that describes my situation.  (I can't remember exactly where it is, but it goes something like this)  "Why do I do the things I do not want to do and not do the things I want to do."  (Something close to that)

That is potentially my biggest problem.  No matter how good my intentions, I continue to sin.  This sin causes guilt and feelings of worthlessness.  These feelings of worthlessness put me in a state where I sin again.  (Kind of a pleasure to ease the pain viscious cycle)  Now don't get me wrong.  I am not some major criminal or anything, but I am nowhere near where I think I should be.  I struggle with a lot of typical things men struggle with.  I want to improve.  For God, for my family and for myself.  For all these things I am truly sorry.  I ask God to forgive me on a daily basis, but I am having a hard time forgiving myself and REALLY believing I have so I can get past this.

Sometimes I actually believe I am being demonically oppressed.  I don't mean this to say I am not responsible for my actions, but that for some reason I am more of a target than most.

I am very lucky to have a loving Wife and a fairly open communication channel with her that allows me to discuss my struggles with her and share them.  She accepts me and loves me including my faults.  I also know that God loves me too.  Why can't I love myself?

I have spent years going through different spiritual paths and various forms of research about who God "might" be to me.  All paths have led me back to the Bible, and my last very strong message from God led me to Ray's site.  This wonderful place that agrees with what I have always believed in my heart.  That God loves us and will save us all.

I am not asking for a lot.  I know that I will have life struggles, and that this is part of living.  I also know what Ray would tell me.  (This is exactly where God intends me to be and, God will change the situation when it is His time to do so)  No offense Ray.  I know you are right.  I am just not where you are, and I am venting.  I hope that is OK.  :-)

I am probably saying things that a million people feel every day.  I am just tired of living like this.  I want just a little bit of peace, self esteem and to be heading in the right direction.  I want to grow my faith.  I want to be a servant of our Lord.  I REALLY do!  I feel I was put here to eventually sometime down the road DO something special for God.  Or maybe that special thing is what I am doing right now.  Maybe God's will is for me to spill my guts in this forum so others like me know they aren't the only one.  If that is the case, I accept it I guess.

I know pride is foolish, and all glory is God's.  I just want to feel OK about myself.  I would like to look in the mirror and simply say, "You aren't doing too bad Chris.  You have come a long way.  Thanks be to God!"

Is that selfish?  Maybe.  I am great at giving advice and helping others as long as you don't look at how I live.  I don't follow the advice I give.  I am a walking paradox.  (Back to the bit from Scripture I mentioned above)  And on top of it, I am a huge doubter.  My faith is not strong.

So consider this my confession even though I know this is between me and God only.  For some reason it was important for me to come out here and let you all know what I fool I am.  How so much unlike God I am.  To say how much I NEED God.  To say I would be nothing with Him.  To say I am a sinner.  Basically to say that I pretty much overall suck.

But.....  I came here to also say, "I am going to work on that."  And....  "I am going to keep praying for faith."  And....  "I won't give up on God."  And....  "I still have this vision of a greater purpose."  I know I have been called.  I don't know if I have been chosen, but God I am here and knocking.

If anyone feels the same way I do, I want to start a group.  Maybe we can call it the spiritual loser's club.  :-)  Maybe it is possible that like-minded people in the same spiritual situation as me can get together and help each other out in fellowship with Christ?  My focus is on the men here.  I don't think I can deal with a woman's problems.  No offense, but women are part of my temptation.  Better not to mix that with spiritual healing.

If one person here can tell me they have been here or are in this place in their lives, I would love to hear from you.  Maybe our combined faults can bear some good fruits if it is God's will.

Humbled by Christ.

Christopher

[brothertoall]

Hi Chris,

First of all thank you so much for that testimony. That right there tells me you are seeking to do what is pleasing in our Father's eyes.

I too have suffered depression and still do at times. I take Paxil once a day just to keep on an even keel. Thank God for the knowledge He has given doctors to help and treat those of us who have these medical conditions.

Chris not one of us is perfect and we all fall short at times. Some of us more than others. I too have areas in my life that need refining and thank God that He alone through Christ is doing it ,for if it were left up to me I would fail everytime!BEEN THERE,DONE THAT!!

Chris I believe in my heart that these things happen to draw us closer to Him and to realize just how weak and helpless we are without Him.

Chris you are who you are and God has created you that way. I too can be harder on myself than needs to be but it is very humbling and I would rather be that way than to be puffed up and think I can handle it all myself.God is slowly destroying the beast that I am and it is a slow process but it is His will I must accept and trust.

Chris please feel free to PM me just to talk when you need to. I am not real smart or have any earth shattering revelations but after reading your post I feel very understanding of you and desire to be your friend and to accept you just the way you are.

Thank you Chris for your post and it has truly blessed me to read your honesty and it sure seems to me that God has used your situation to speak to someone who understands and has been and still is at the same place you are.

Love to you my brother and new friend,

bobby(bob)

[Patrick]

Chris, trust me, you are not alone.
I sometimes hate looking at myself in the mirror. I have gone days not wanting to see my ugly (my view) mug looking back at me because I see God looking back at me and shaking His head in disgust.
I often think my faith is strong, only to be tested and see that it is not as strong as I thought it was. The Epistle of James is (I think) a great read for times such as these.
I often feel like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.
I believe you are doing the right thing by confessing to us (not that I think I am an elder of the church) and now we should pray for one another.

Patrick

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello

Sounds like you are in ICU...Intesive Care Unit!...and I do not mean that to sound trivial at all. I do CU!

Here is what I am moved to tell you.....

You write : Why can't I love myself? Christopher, Christopher that is for Jesus Christ to do and HE DOES!. Your job is not to love yourself but love others. This is not meant to sound calous or insensitive. It is not meant to say either that you do not love others. NO. It means that once the focus is shifted, and only God can bring that, then we begin to see away from ourselves towards others and then only towards Christ. I share with you the path you describe that you are on. I know what deppression is first hand. I know and feel your pain. It is Gods process on you Christopher. God is working. It does hurt! I can not NOT hurt! THAT IT HURTS shows you are called. Be patient. EVERYTHING comes.... TO PASS! It does Christopher.

I have personally found that reading Ray's teaching has helped me to change one degree at a time. I encourage you to keep studying rather than seeking equally hurting people to hang onto. You are here now. Don't go anywhere. Read a bit and tell us what you think....You will find strong, compassionate, wise and faithfull friends here in Christ....who all want only to know and love serve, encourage, edify and help you.

Arcturus........

[JJ]

Well Chris, ..........  not to bring you further down or anything, but life can only
get more difficult from here on out, in my experience.   Your words
mirrored my own feelings for years.   I am a perfectionist or a recovering
perfectionist maybe.  Still go round and round that
internal struggle at times:
looking in the mirror and feeling digusted (and others say I am nice looking)
longing to 'have it ALL together'  and on and on w/ the perfectionist syndrome--
never feeling that I am good enough or worked hard enough or  nice enough--
BUT  when I think these things, I now KNOW what God has taught me:

little ol' me has nothing- no faith, no ability to seek God, no good works, nothing
but filthy, selfish, comfort-seeking flesh-- anything good I have is from Him--
God has given me any desire for Himself that I may have,
any wisdom, any faith and ONLY the work that He does through and in  me is of any
value.   I can NOT make myself good or make myself change, but He can motivate
me w/ the fire of refinement and I can volunteer to follow and choose to turn away
from sin--- because of His work in me and that isn't a fluffly, sweet grace..... it hurts!

I am truly lacking-- a sinner -- a beast actually-- soooo selfish and THAT disgusts me
and that is the major reason I can't believe any of the nice things people say to me,
cuz I KNOW the real me!   Knowing how really selfish I am, makes me submit
(w/o grudge) to God's chastening.   I NEED this chastening to make me suffer enough
to teach me patience and longsuffering and sacraficial love and to teach me over and
over again the same lessons- (failing, realization, remorse, repentence) to SEE that
GOD is ALL and EVERYTHING and I am NOTHING(nothing but a selfish beast) without Him.   

It may take a lifetime to teach me to take the focus OFF myself and I am a person that
others see as a total servant to others, but we as flesh naturally lean toward the comfort
and pleasure of our OWN flesh and I see that in me ( and every human) and see that God's purpose for me
on this earth is to burn/refine these selfish/carnal/fleshly characteristics out of me to
make me into a vessel that brings honor (focus) and glory (praise) to Him alone (not me).

That is why I say that it will only get harder from this point.  The refining process is a living
hell..... relentless, wearisome, bam! bam! bam!-- "give me a break!"  "please! help me endure!"
It takes you to the VERY end of yourself- to the point that you really believe you will die, even
are dying~ for some of us, even wishing you would just die and get relief at times, hating the
pain and hating living w/ yourself day after day, hate living the life of struggling to survive
and cope.......

the only comfort is KNOWING that God is in TOTAL control and having been convinced that
there is no greater honor than being a filthy lump of clay in the hands of the Almighty Father
of Creation-- hoping to someday be a completed work- a vessel of honor TO Him-- in faith
knowing this WILL happen-- because He promises to do this and always completes His
work..........  that is the hope, the comfort, the desire that allows me to endure myself and
my life........ to endure the stripping of the flesh.

The depression that once made me numb and often made me want to give up and die
when I wasn't numb enough to not feel the pain,  that depression visits me less often now.
I am always on the edge because life is ALMOST impossible, but there is a deep joy in
understanding God's purpose for us on earth.  That joy keeps me balanced and protects
me from succombing to total depression..... accept when i get real selfish and just want
my own comfort and want to stop short of finishing...... then another BAM! and the cycle
continues (like spinning on the Potter's wheel) and another lesson to learn.... on and on.
 
Maybe none of that is familiar to you, but that is my experience.   Please keep reading
Ray's material and let God speak to you, as to whether it is true and scriptural and
I pray it will help you as it has helped me.

jj

[vonmarschall]

You are all awesome.

I see God's work in all of you.  Thank you and God Bless You All!

I will listen to all of the advice you provided.  I will read Ray's material over and over until I get it.  It feels good to be called ya know?  The fact that I have been blessed to at least realize my faults and regret my sins and see my weaknesses.  I guess that is the first step in becoming a Godly person.  I know I won't be a Godly person until God refines me after my death, but I do believe that I can improve if it is God's will and perhaps do His work as well to help others.

I feel an odd kindred with each of you, and I am shocked at how similar we all are.  If you all need a friend.  Someone who also understands, I am here for you.  If you have AOL Instant Messenger you can add me MARSCHALLCEJ or mail me at cmarscha@hotmail.com.  I will reply, and would love the fellowship of people who believe what I do.

What a great group.  Honestly.  God has worked through Ray and brought us all together and brought to us these great truths that most churches simply do not teach.  I spent too many years angry at religion, and now at the very least, I can leave that bad word behind me because I don't need religion.  I need God.

I send you my deepest blessings in the name of our Lord.

Chris

[Deborah-Leigh]

That is precious!

Peace to you as He walks beside you and within you from this day forward among our fellowship here.....

Arcturus   

[MG]

You're not alone Chris.

JJ's words ring true with me also.

[brothertoall]

Chris you are special and we are all here for you also. Tis true I am nothing without Him and JJ hit the nail on the head.

Much love to you my brother,

bobby(bob)

[longhorn]

Chris.  I am the President of the East Texas Depression and beat yourself up club.  Trust me you are not alone.  God has you right where he wants you.  It's a tough place, but he told us it would be.  Being conformed to the Image of Christ is an painstaking process.

Love in Christ

Longhorn

P.S.  Chris, As President of the ETDBYUC, I am in need of a quality V.P if you are interested.

[Craig]

Chris.  I am the President of the East Texas Depression and beat yourself up club.  Trust me you are not alone.  God has you right where he wants you.  It's a tough place, but he told us it would be.  Being conformed to the Image of Christ is an painstaking process.

Love in Christ

Longhorn

P.S.  Chris, As President of the ETDBYUC, I am in need of a quality V.P if you are interested.

I bet you had plenty of depression after Texas lost this past weekend also?

Craig

[dogcombat]

Yes Chris,

God has you right where He wants you.  (Me too for that matter  )  One day in the future, I think you'll reflect on this period of your life and not be able to stop laughing about it.  That means you've found the joy that comes from Him and His enduring Grace that transforms us. 

Ches

[longhorn]

Chris.  I am the President of the East Texas Depression and beat yourself up club.  Trust me you are not alone.  God has you right where he wants you.  It's a tough place, but he told us it would be.  Being conformed to the Image of Christ is an painstaking process.

Love in Christ

Longhorn

P.S.  Chris, As President of the ETDBYUC, I am in need of a quality V.P if you are interested.

I bet you had plenty of depression after Texas lost this past weekend also?

Craig

Now Craig just went an opened up a can of worms.  But yes you are right, it did sting for a couple of days.

[vonmarschall]

I accept your VP offer!  By the way, thanks you your fellowship and the Grace of God I am feeling much better.  I saw my doctor today, and he is helping out too.  (My company was recently acquired, and we have new insurance, so I lost my Psychiatrist)  I decided to call them yesterday to see if they are now covered under my new insurance, and guess what?  They are now!  Coincidence?  I think not.  God is great!

I love you guys!  Peace and God Bless!

Chris