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Author Topic: What?  (Read 2090 times)

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  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
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« on: November 18, 2006, 03:53:44 PM »

Dear Ray,
Thank you for all the hard work and dedication you have put into making this website.  There is a lot of research on it, and I am sure it took, and continues to take many hours to keep it going.

     A few weeks ago I was listening to a message by John MacArthur in my car on the doctrine of election.  Hearing this message took me back a year and a half ago when I was deeply interested in the articles on your website.  I certainly had never before read something similar to your understanding of hell, the book of Revelations, and the final judgment.   The main argument that drew most of my attention was: how can a loving God choose in advance to send the vast majority (95-99%) of the human beings that He created in His own image to spend an eternity roasting in hell?  Is this truly a loving God?  Why would He willfully destroy His own creation?  These tough questions were never addressed in MacArthur?s 4 hour message, and to be honest...I have never seen them mentioned anywhere else except on your website.

    These past few days, I have been turning this question over and over in my head.  I would like to share with you a few of my own observations. 

    I agree as you do that the first and most important question we have to ask ourselves is whether Hell truly exist or was it simply created as propaganda by the Roman Catholic Church.  After having studying many passages and asked various pastors this question, I find myself still in middle ground.  Your arguments make sense but they do not jive with the exclusivity of the gospel.  Jesus makes it very clear that narrow is the gate that leads to life and few are those who find it.  Jesus also pronounces very clearly that there is only one way to have truth and life...and that is through Himself.  Not through Mohammed, Abraham, Joseph Smith, or any other man for that matter.
    The truth is Ray that after it is all said and done, we will never truly know beyond a shadow of a doubt what God has in store for us until our knees are bent before His Holy throne.  As the scriptures put it: (paraphrasing) who can know the mind of God?....His ways are such much higher than our ways and His thoughts are so much greater than our thoughts.  There are some things that God has revealed that is very clear to us....and there are other things that seem to be better kept a secret.

    After breaking it down, I believe that the deciding factor for this ongoing debate comes down to one word: assurance.  Let me put it in an analogy:   

    I am 40 thousand feet above the ground traveling in a large passenger plane at night time.  While all of the passengers are fast asleep, the flight attendant in tears leaves me a short message that says the following: "a terrorist has killed the pilot and the plane will probably crash soon.  Tell passengers TO PUT ON THEIR PARACHUTE to abort the plane if needed."     After reading this note, I quickly stand up in my chair and warn all of the passengers in a loud voice to: "put on your parachute!!  It will make you feel comfortable and will help to improve your flight!!"  Most if not all the passengers would think I am either NUTS or just another crazy terrorist.   The few that do take me seriously would quickly begin to question the truthfulness of my statement when they feel their back aching from the extra weight of the parachute. They will all too soon throw off their parachute out of frustration and anger of having been awakened ....and lied to.

    The more logical response after reading the note would be:  "ATTENTION!! A TERRORIST HAS JUST KILLED THE PILOT AND HE IS PROBABLY GOING TO KILL US ALL.  PUT ON YOUR PARACHUTE IN CASE WE HAVE A CHANCE TO JUMP FOR IT!!!"  After hearing this urgent warning, any passenger who would not put on their parachute would be an absolute fool.  They would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that their ONLY ASSURANCE of life would be in that parachute. 

    I am sure you can understand the point I making by this analogy.  I believe the main reason why we have so many fake and false converts to Christianity in America today is because many don't believe that Jesus is their ONLY assurance, their only parachute, the only one they can cling to on their death bed when faced with the reality of eternity.  Most of the gospel preached today in America is a "life-improvement" message. - "Give your heart to Jesus and He'll give you back peace, joy, love, and everlasting happiness.  He'll renew your marriage, make your kids obey, get you that new promotion at work....and on....and on....and on".  The fac t is Ray, that when you take away the "hell, fire, and brimstone" message from the teachings of Christianity, all you have left is this happy, huggy and warm, life-enhancement message.  It sounds pretty good at the beginning, but when faced with the many "trials and tribulations" of Christianity that Christ warns us of, most are by then ready to fling off Christ just like that worthless parachute. 

    A doctor must tell his patient his disease before giving him his medication.  The passenger must tell the passengers the plane is going to crash before telling them to put on the parachute.  And in the same manner, Christians must tell pagans that they are lost in their sins and heading for eternal destruction before telling them of the cross.

    In conclusion Ray, I believe that we must continue to preach the "hell, fire, and brimstone" message if we are to preserve the exclusivity of the gospel and the motivation to preach it.  Look at it this way Ray: If you are right and I am wrong....well then PRAISE GOD!!  We will all live together in Heaven happily ever after.  That truly is a beautiful thought.  BUT   If I am right and you are wrong....think of all those people who have read your website and walked away with the conviction that it simply DOESNT MATTER.  Because in the end, God is simply going to save everyone.             I choose the latter.

     Your brother in Christ,



    Dear Luke:

    Wow!  What an analogy.  So when people are told on a plane that a terrorists have killed the pilot, and they must put on their parachutes or they will die, then they will leave them on and all be saved even if it doesn't "feel comfortable."   Have you actually FLOWN in a commercial airline, Luke?  THEY DON'T HAVE PARACHUTES FOR THE PASSENGERS!  And they are called "seats," not "chairs."  But analogy failure aside, you assure us that we MUST TELL THE PASSENGERS THE TRUTH, it that correct?  ONLY the truth will save them? Correct? But when you bring your silly analogy forward to telling people the TRUTH about God, Jesus and salvation, you do it by LYING TO THEM ABOUT A BOGUS HELL?  Am I missing something in this analogy of yours?  No, I don't even see an analogy, and only your "reasoning" is worst than your analogy.

    "NO LIE is of the truth" (I John 2:21). One doesn't teach the truth, indirectly, by TELLING LIES.

    God be with you,


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