Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[eggi]

It comes to mind something that Ray said, I'll paraphrase:
"The whole Bible is ONE GIANT PARABLE. It all speaks about the same subject: Many are called, but few are chosen." (Paraphrased)

I think what Arcturus brought into attention is true and very important here. The garden symbolizes the spiritual state of Mystery Babylon. What happened (and still happens) in the garden?:

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Gen 2:16-17 KJV)

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Gen 3:2-3 KJV)

The tree of knowledge is in the midst of the garden. Adam and Eve ate of it.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. (Gen 3:4-7 KJV)

Now in the end they knew that they were naked, but perhaps most important, they were ashamed. Because of this they began making for themselves filthy garments. Before they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they were not even ashamed:

And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. (Gen 2:25 KJV)

When you are in the garden, you don't truly know that you are naked and miserable, you think you will take care of it all yourself:

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: (Rev 3:17 KJV)

The next verse speaks about gold:

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. (Rev 3:18 KJV)

We all must "go to the market" (buy) to get the gold tried in the fire, as opposed to worshiping our own golden mice:

They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. (Isa 66:17 KJV)

When you trust that knowledge of good and evil (your own knowledge and works) is enough to take care of things, you are purifying yourself in the gardens BEHIND the one tree in the midst, and that is abomination, mouse worshiping.

This is how I see it, but I look forward to stand corrected if I'm wrong!

God bless you and keep you,
Eirik

[Andy_MI]

I'm not sure if this verse is pertinent or not.

I feel dumber than a box of hammers with this topic. 

About the garden:

Luk 13:18-19 ASV
(18  He said therefore, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I liken it?
(19)  It is like unto a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his own garden; and it grew, and became a tree; and the birds of the heaven lodged in the branches thereof.

About the one standing in the midst:

Mar 13:14 KJVR
(14) But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, let (him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:

Peace,

Andy

[M_Oliver]

Hi M Oliver,
That's just it, they THINK they are sanctified by "eating mice", they believe THEY HAVE accepted Jesus, they believe by joining their church they are made right, but they do not see they are entangling themselves in a network of filth. 
What do you see? 

Love,
Marie

I took Ray up on his email offer and sent him an answer saying basically the same thing that everyone else is saying.  We all get that part of it ie. Christendom-false doctrines-heading for the second resurrection but this is how Ray responded back...

Mark:
But WHY DO THEY EAT MICE?
Ray


Maybe I am reading his challenge wrong but he sure seems to be trying to get us to zero in on "WHY" "MICE".  In the original email that was posted he did ask the lady if there was a spiritual match to this somewhere.  I've read Ray long enough to know that he is saying that there is but he wants us to find it.  That is the part that has me stumped.  I've done what everyone else has I'm sure...e-sword-strong's-interlinear etc. but I can't nail it.

"mice" or "mouse" as you all have seen is not used very much at all so I'm wondering if I am blind when I read those verses or is there another Scripture somewhere that he is referring to that does not use the word??

[sj]

Hi.

"Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,…”

Isaiah 1:29
Surely you will be ashamed of the oaks which you have desired,
And you will be embarrassed at the gardens which you have chosen.

Isaiah 65:3
A people who continually provoke Me to My face,
Offering sacrifices in gardens and burning incense on bricks;

This reminded me of the people of Israel desiring Saul, a “human king” over a Theocracy.

I think this would apply to us today as anytime an individual chooses “man-made” religions practice or the “traditions of men” over truly desiring the wisdom of God and wanting to be part of His family.

“Following one in the center,…”

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

Also see, Isaiah 14:14 & Ezekiel 28:2

Revelations 2:4
'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love.

I’m not around “e-sword” at the moment, but I’ve been thinking this morning about in the gospels where Christ says that the religious leaders’ true desire is to wear long robes and have special greetings in the marketplace…

Man desires to be in the center because He loves himself…

God desires for us to place Him in the center, by loving others (especially those in need) because He loves US!

James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.


“Who eat swine's flesh, detestable things and mice,…”

Those who eat…

Swine’s flesh = things that are unclean / forbidden

Leviticus 11:7
and the pig, for though it divides the hoof, thus making a split hoof, it does not chew cud, it is unclean to you.

Detestable things = things that do not honor God

Such as…

Isaiah 66:3

But whoever sacrifices a bull is like one who kills a man, and whoever offers a lamb, like one who breaks a dog's neck; whoever makes a grain offering is like one who presents pig's blood, and whoever burns memorial incense, like one who worships an idol. They have chosen their own ways, and their souls delight in their abominations;

Mice = those who are helpless… ?

Led astray by the false teachings of “man-made religion”

Matt 15

Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said,

"Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."

And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

"For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.'

"But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God," he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

"You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you: THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'"


“Will come to an end altogether," declares the LORD.”

So that God may become “ALL in ALL,” Amen.

[Andy_MI]

Here's a letter I sent to Ray and his reply.

Hi brother Smith,

In regards to "why they eat mice."

I'm thinking that the key is in this verse maybe?

Isa 66:3 KJVR
(3) He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their so ul delighteth in their abominations.

They eat mice because their soul delights in their own ways and abominations.

The Philistines worshipped golden mice.

1Sa 6:4 KJVR
(4) Then said they, What shall be the trespass offering which we shall return to him? They answered, Five golden emerods, and five golden mice, according to the number of the lords of the Philistines: for one plague was on you all, and on your lords.

Jesus said that His flesh and blood needed to be eaten.

Joh 6:53 KJVR
(53) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Since the people in Isa 66:17 were eating mice rather than eating the flesh and drinking the blood of the Son of man, then they were practicing their own man made doctrins and religion. The babylon harlot system.

Please let me know if I'm on the right track.

Blessings to you,

Andy

Dear Andy;:

Very good. You are closer than anyone thus far. In fact you are the only one who mentioned eating the body of Christ. Obviously the eating of mice is a symbol of something spiritual, not literally eating mice. Swine and mice are two categories of "unclean meats" under the law of Moses. So if we are not to each unclean meats such as swine and mice (not mice specifically, but mice is an example of a vast categor of of little fury creations not to be eaten), are we to eat clean food--beef, turkey, etc? No, if the "mice" is symbolic of what not to each, then what we ARE to eat must also be symbolic. And contrary to the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation, Jesus meant eating His body as a symbol for something spiritual as well.
But there is more: we have the garden? and its connection with "the worm that dies not and unquenched fire?" Also, WHEN does this occur? Before the resurrection to judgment? After the resurrection to Judgment? Both before AND after? Etc. There needs to bee a connection between Judgment in Matt. 5:22, and Gehenna fire, and this garden which represents something that only one other commented on.
Does the lake of fire begin when Christ begins His reign on this earth? Are the "Gehenna of fire," and the "lake of fire" the same? Are they in use at the same time? Will then, those who say "Raca" to their brothers, in Christ's Kingdom, be cast into the lake of fire, BEORE the resurrection of the dead unbelievers to the Great White Throne of Judgment? Etc., etc., etc. I will cover it in Part D. There is a lot of things involved in these few verses.
God be with you,
Ray

[Deborah-Leigh]

This is way over my head but sounds like those that set themselves apart are the nation of judah and the other group are the gentile nations and God is going to punish them both together.Now thats what I get out of the literal word,that judah had become as bad and the gentile nations when it came to obeying Him,I could aply to the church that God sees the people that beleave in freewil,those that sanctify themselves,like he does those in the world that are unclean.when I read that it seem to me that there are two groups,those that sanctify themselves and those that eat unclean foods,

I do not think that this so way over your head Jerry....! It got me thinking that the nation of Judah did set themselves apart, above and higher than the gentile nations they were to share their knowledge of God with and did not. Instead they became separate, arrogant, self sanctified,  and they also began to compromise and introduced  the pagan teachings and practises. They, Gods  " chosen people" had became full blown pagans and were so when Jesus Christ came . Much like, I think it will be throughout Christianity when He returns....

I enjoy your introduction to the free will idol of the heart. The one group teaches free will. You have to choose Christ nonsense like say this two second prayer and be saved trashy heresy.  The other group who bow to the free will of their pagan mindless, speachless lifeless Gods....Buddha, Krishna and oh do not forget the trek to Mecca to parade around a black box....etc....

Ray mentioned two kinds of food, mice and swine....I do not know what these represent. All I know is that my anticipation to see and know the truth is heightening!.... I know I do not know. I know only that I want to! I enjoy thinking about and searching for the truth.

[M_Oliver]

Here's a letter I sent to Ray and his reply.

Hi brother Smith,

In regards to "why they eat mice."

I'm thinking that the key is in this verse maybe?

Isa 66:3 KJVR
(3) He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their so ul delighteth in their abominations.

They eat mice because their soul delights in their own ways and abominations.

The Philistines worshipped golden mice.

1Sa 6:4 KJVR
(4) Then said they, What shall be the trespass offering which we shall return to him? They answered, Five golden emerods, and five golden mice, according to the number of the lords of the Philistines: for one plague was on you all, and on your lords.

Jesus said that His flesh and blood needed to be eaten.

Joh 6:53 KJVR
(53) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Since the people in Isa 66:17 were eating mice rather than eating the flesh and drinking the blood of the Son of man, then they were practicing their own man made doctrins and religion. The babylon harlot system.

Please let me know if I'm on the right track.

Blessings to you,

Andy

Dear Andy;:

Very good. You are closer than anyone thus far. In fact you are the only one who mentioned eating the body of Christ. Obviously the eating of mice is a symbol of something spiritual, not literally eating mice. Swine and mice are two categories of "unclean meats" under the law of Moses. So if we are not to each unclean meats such as swine and mice (not mice specifically, but mice is an example of a vast categor of of little fury creations not to be eaten), are we to eat clean food--beef, turkey, etc? No, if the "mice" is symbolic of what not to each, then what we ARE to eat must also be symbolic. And contrary to the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation, Jesus meant eating His body as a symbol for something spiritual as well.
But there is more: we have the garden? and its connection with "the worm that dies not and unquenched fire?" Also, WHEN does this occur? Before the resurrection to judgment? After the resurrection to Judgment? Both before AND after? Etc. There needs to bee a connection between Judgment in Matt. 5:22, and Gehenna fire, and this garden which represents something that only one other commented on.
Does the lake of fire begin when Christ begins His reign on this earth? Are the "Gehenna of fire," and the "lake of fire" the same? Are they in use at the same time? Will then, those who say "Raca" to their brothers, in Christ's Kingdom, be cast into the lake of fire, BEORE the resurrection of the dead unbelievers to the Great White Throne of Judgment? Etc., etc., etc. I will cover it in Part D. There is a lot of things involved in these few verses.
God be with you,
Ray

Great job Andy!  You might be the one who has to bring this baby home  .  God is humbling me right now I can say that for sure.  I'm stalled on this big time.  I'm only getting spark in a couple of cylinders if ya know what I mean  .

Mark

[eggi]

It just occurred to me that the word "gardens" is used in 1Co 3:9.

For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry [garden], ye are God's building. (1Co 3:9 KJV)

Paul is speaking of the fruits produced in that garden:

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. (1Co 3:6-8 KJV)

Again, considering the scriptures in Isaiah:

They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. (Isa 66:17 KJV)

The fact that the word "garden" means "fruits" sheds new light on Isa 66:17. They that sanctify themselves and purify themselves in the fruits behind one tree in the midst (the tree of knowledge of good and evil), they that eat swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, SHALL be consumed together. Seems like this is talking about when you rely on your own fruits that come from the knowledge of good and evil, and not from the tree of life.

This is basically the same like I said in my previous post on this subject, but the "gardens" and "fruits" are an addition to what I said before.

Also I'm thinking that there are five different aspects that SHALL be consumed together. They are:

• they that sanctify themselves,
• they that purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst,
• they that eat swine's flesh,
• the abomination,
• and the mouse.

These are related. The last part of the verse "[...] shall be consumed together, saith the LORD" raises the question: WHEN will they be consumed together. The key to understanding this lies perhaps in knowing something about the abomination:

Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD. (Jer 6:15 KJV)

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. (Dan 11:31 KJV)

Could "take away the daily sacrifice" indicate giving up on the law and our own works? I can't figure out how the placing of the abomination fits in to this, so excuse me, I'm just trying to ask questions!

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) (Mat 24:15 KJV)

At this point I can't see WHEN this will be. I believe it has an outward and inward application. It will stand in the holy place, is that the temple, within us?

It seems to me that this related to us submitting to God, recognizing that HE will save us, and not ourselves:

At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel. And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made, either the groves, or the images.
In that day shall his strong cities be as a forsaken bough, and an uppermost branch, which they left because of the children of Israel: and there shall be desolation. Because thou hast forgotten the God of thy salvation, and hast not been mindful of the rock of thy strength, therefore shalt thou plant pleasant plants, and shalt set it with strange slips: In the day shalt thou make thy plant to grow, and in the morning shalt thou make thy seed to flourish: but the harvest shall be a heap in the day of grief and of desperate sorrow.

But to them that don't recognize this:

Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters! The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind. (Isa 17:7-13 KJV)

The noise of the seas are also mentioned in Rev. 19:

And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. (Rev 19:1-7 KJV)

Is this all talking about when the rest of the world are brought to see that salvation is of God only?

I'm waiting to see and learn more. Does anyone else see anything regarding this?

[Deborah-Leigh]

Some more food for thought. Isn't Ray good at giving us food

Here is how he answered my effort to explain vs 17.


 
Dear Arcturus:
As most of the attempts at this difficult verse, you too have given some good answers.  And your answers are true. However, verse 17 appears not to against all humanity, as back a few verses we have God's spiritual nation being born in one day, then back three verses in verse 14 we read of those whose "heart shall rejoice" because "the hand of the Lord shall be known toward His SERVANTS, and His indignation toward His ENEMIES."  So I do not believe that God's Elect are part of those mentioned eating mice in the garden.
 
God be with you,
Ray

So what about "God's spiritual nation being born in ONE DAY"  The scriptures say that.....To God one day is as a thousand and a thousand are as one day..... Do you think there is something in that? Could this point to the new millenia where Christ reigns a thousand years?

As eggie comments....WHEN?  Is this not when .....
"the hand of the Lord shall be known toward His SERVANTS, and His indignation toward His ENEMIES." in the day of the Lord. I somehow do not think this is now. I think it is at the final judgement after the first ressurection where those in Christ will be raised up to rule with Him and the second death will be for those appointed to the White Throne. This is where your scriptures make sence for me Eggi.

FRom Ray's LOF part 14 quote

THE DAY OF THE LORD AND II THESSALONIANS II

Most of us not unlike the Thessalonians of Paul’s day are aware of a prophetic time spoken by the prophets known as "The Day of the Lord." The Thessalonians knew somewhat of this day and what it portended, as Paul spoke to them earlier about it. Now he has to tell them in this second epistle,

"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that THE DAY OF CHRIST is at hand" (II Thes. 2:2).

Never forget that Jesus Christ IS ‘The LORD,’ and so the Day of Christ and the Day of the Lord both represent the Son of God.

Notice what Paul had instructed them in his first epistle concerning the coming of the Lord:

"…and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the Living and True God; And to wait for His Son from heaven, Whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come" (I Thes. 1:9b-10).

Paul tells them of his suffering:

"For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain: But even after that we had SUFFERED before, and were SHAMEFULLY ENTREATED, as ye know… with MUCH CONTENTION

(I Thes. 2:1-2). Then Paul speaks of their suffering and the reason for sending Timothy to them:

"That no man should be moved by THESE AFFLICTIONS: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto" (I Thes. 3:3).

Paul states that:

"Therefore, brethren, we were comforted over you in all our AFFLICTION and DISTRESS by your faith" (I Thes. 3:7).

And so Paul tells them of his afflictions, and also acknowledges their afflictions. Again Paul assures these Thessalonians that:

"For yourselves know perfectly that THE DAY OF THE LORD so comes as a thief in the night… For God has NOT appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thes. 5:2 & 9).

Well Timothy reported back to Paul that they were having even more tribulations and persecutions to the point that they were thinking that they must be in that period of time of "The Day of the Lord," and that they themselves were suffering wrath from God.

Once more Paul acknowledges these tribulations and suffering:

"So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in ALL YOUR PERSECUTIONS AND TRIBULATIONS THAT YE ENDURE" (II Thes. 1:4).

But rather than wrath from God, Paul assures them that this suffering is really a token of God’s righteous judgment and that God will be punishing those who are persecuting them:

"Which [suffering] is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be COUNTED WORTHY of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God recompense tribulation to them that TROUBLE YOU" (II Thes. 1:5-6).

Then Paul gives them one more giant promise of rest from all of these sufferings:

"And to you [and to US as well] who are troubled REST with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction [eonian extermination] from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power; When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) IN THAT DAY" (II Thes. 1:7-10).

And next we come to the Scriptures of our present study. Paul comforts them in their persecutions and tribulations. He assures them that endurance in faith will account the worthy to be in the Kingdom of God, and that they will have rest at the coming of our Lord to be glorified in His saints and admired in ALL THAT BELIEVE. This is the way of the believer leading up to the coming of the Lord and the "Day of the Lord," when all will be changed and glorified. But Paul tells them that that day is not here yet.

Listen carefully: Generation after generation after generation of believers and saints of God have lived, suffered and been persecuted, and then DIED. This "Day of Christ" or "Day of the Lord" not only did not come in their lifetime, but it will not be a reality to any of them WHEN IT DOES COME, unless something else happens in their lives FIRST!

Unless this experience happened to them in their lifetime, whenever they lived, they will not be in the First Resurrection and see the Coming of the Lord in the Day of the Lord. Something had to have happened to them—all of them. Something HAS to happen to YOU—ALL OF YOU who expect to see the Coming of the Lord and the Day of the Lord and be accounted worthy to be in The Kingdom of God. Yes, we already read in II Thes. 1:10, "When He shall come to be glorified in His saints…" And He will be glorified in all His saints at that time, but not unless something has happened in all of His saints FIRST!

Until and unless the thing that I am going to mention next is an accomplished FACT in your PRESENT life, you will not see The Coming of the Lord, neither will you be in the First Resurrection of spiritual rest and glorification. I kid you not, this is deep and heavy stuff!

 

BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD CAN COME TO YOU

Here then is what must be accomplished in your life before you die:

"Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness, and the work of faith with power: THAT the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be GLORIFIED IN YOU [IN YOU], and YE IN HIM, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thes. 1:11-12)!!

How then does our Apostle Paul tell us this MUST be accomplished? What must happen? What must we do? Or rather what must Jesus do IN US? Here is the Scriptural answer:

"Now we beseech YOU, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him.

That ye be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that THE DAY OF CHRIST [The Day of the Lord] is at hand [FOR YOU...].

Let no man deceive YOU by any means: for that day shall not come [TO YOU…] except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST [BY YOU…], and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition [IN YOU…TO YOU…]; Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped [IN YOU…]; so that he as God sits in the temple of God [‘which temple YE ARE’ II Cor. 6:16] showing himself that HE IS [YOU ARE / I AM] a god

Remember ye not, that when I was yet with YOU, I told YOU these things?

And now ye know what withholds [is restraining, is detaining—‘the falling away FIRST’] that he [‘the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition’—YOU…] might be revealed in his time [in YOU and TO YOU—individually, not collectively] in his time [‘his {particular} time’]—FOR YOU and FOR ME and for ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL GENERATIONS UNTIL JESUS COMES TO US ALL, COLLECTIVELY, AS THE MANIFEST SONS OF GOD]."

Long before Jesus can have a COMPANY of manifest SONS and DAUGHTERS of God, there has to be individual begettals by the Holy Spirit of God in chosen individuals in every generation leading up to the coming of the Lord at the end of this age.

"For the mystery [secret, hidden truth] of iniquity [lawlessness] does already work [‘is inwardly working’ The Emphasized New Testament: A New Translation (J. B. Rotherham)]: only he who now lets will let [‘only he who restrains will do so’], until he be taken out of the way.

And then shall that Wicked [Lawless One] be revealed IN [IN YOU] and TO YOU, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit [breath] of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming;

Even him [not original], whose coming [the man of sin called son of perdition IN YOU] is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders" (II Thes. 2:1-9).

So to answer my own question....with another question is this process not yesterday, today and tomorrow?....The Judgemtment on the Chruch is now and the White Throne is ahead......Am I on to something here do you think?


Arcturus

[Slim]

Your Moslem brothers don't eat pork. Your Jewish brothers don't eat pork.

I believe that pork truly is "that other white meat". Ham, bacon, yum yum. If the worst thing I ever did was to eat pork, I would be doing really, really good. The sin comes from within, not without.

[Kat]

Hi Arcturus and eggi,

I'm still looking at this too.

What Ray said,

verse 17 appears not to against all humanity, as back a few verses we have God's spiritual nation being born in one day, then back three verses in verse 14 we read of those whose "heart shall rejoice" because "the hand of the Lord shall be known toward His SERVANTS, and His indignation toward His ENEMIES."

'God's spiritual nation being born in one day,'  He will raise up the Saints to be with Him, His return and the Saints raised will be the same day.

1Co 15:52  It will happen suddenly, quicker than the blink of an eye. At the sound of the last trumpet the dead will be raised. We will all be changed, so that we will never die again. (CEV)

The Lord's return will also setup His kingdom on earth.

Rev 5:10  And You made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign over the earth.

But, before He will rule He will removed Babylon.

 Rev 18:1  And after these things I saw another angel come down from Heaven, having great authority. And the earth was lighted up from his glory.
v.2  And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great has fallen, has fallen!
v.21(ESV) Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So will Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and will be found no more;

I think 'gardens' have to do with the churches, Babylon.

Ray said,

Isaiah talked for SIXTY-SIX CHAPTERS, and climaxes with this stern warning concerning those who: "...sanctify themselves, and purify themselves, IN THE GARDENS BEHIND ONE TREE IN THE MIDST, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, AND THE MOUSE, shall be consumed together says the Lord."
What religion or large group of people is so prominent that they have the climax of the Book of Isaiah attributed to them, who "...in the GARDENS BEHIND ONE TREE, eating...THE MOUSE...' And where is the Second and Third Witness to this Scripture to prove its meaning?

Isa 1:29  For they shall be ashamed of the trees which you lusted after; and you shall be ashamed of the gardens that you have chosen. (LITV)

Ray said,

. Obviously the eating of mice is a symbol of something spiritual, not literally eating mice. Swine and mice are two categories of "unclean meats" under the law of Moses. So if we are not to eat unclean meats such as swine and mice (not mice specifically, but mice is an example of a vast category of  little fury creations not to be eaten), are we to eat clean food--beef, turkey, etc? No, if the "mice" is symbolic of what not to eat, then what we ARE to eat must also be symbolic. And contrary to the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation, Jesus meant eating His body as a symbol for something spiritual as well.

John 6:55  For My flesh is truly food, and My blood is truly drink.
v.56  The one partaking of My flesh and drinking of My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

In the same way that we abide in Christ by eating or consuming His body and blood,
wouldn't the people eating or consuming unclean things be the abomination 

Isa 66:17  "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating pig's flesh and the abomination [From H8262; filth, that is, (figuratively and specifically) an idolatrous object: - abominable (-tion).] and mice, shall come to an end together, declares the LORD. (ESV)

Isa 66:17  The LORD says, "The end is near for those who purify themselves for pagan worship, who go in procession to sacred gardens, and who eat pork and mice and other disgusting foods. (GNB)

This is what I've been thinking about all this.
Keep up the input, it helps.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Kat

To add to your insights....

1 Cor 10 : 21  You cannot drink the Lord's cup and the demons' cup. You cannot partake of the Lord's table and the demons' table.

I see the above scripture not as a request but as an Absolute.ie. YOU CAN NOT and not Relative...Please don't. As in the Scripture below where Jesus says NO ONE CAN(Absolute) not Relative Please do not We have to believe, trust in and rely on this

Much in line with the scripture where Jesus says Matt 6 : 24  No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stand by and be devoted to the one and despise and be against the other. You cannot serve God and mammon, deceitful riches, money, possessions, or WHATEVER is trusted in)...like perhaps idols, mice, pigs, abominable practices?

In John 6: 47 I assure you most solemnly I tell you, he who believes in Me, who adheres to, trusts in, relies on, and has faith in Me, has, now possesses...  life. 48 I am the Bread of Life, that gives life - the Living Bread. 53 I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, you cannot have any life in you unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, unless you appropriate His life and the saving merit of His blood.

In verse 29... I believe this shows  how we are to abide in Christ...this is just what I believe. Here is what Jesus said...This is the work, service that God asks of you; that you believe in the One Whom He has sent, that you cleave to, trust, rely on, and have faith in His Messenger.

So, with this in mind, to know or to self evaluate how much we dwell in Christ, should we ask ourselves whether we believe in His faithfullness, do we cleave to Him and trust on Him or on other things like our worship, our works, our posessions and ourselves etc? I believe the work of His Spirit in us draws us away from this error into correction through our trials and tribulations!

....This is what I am seeing. ....I feel like there is a Eurika moment just around the corner!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Beloved]

These are interesting verses to contemplate .

 (Isa 66:15 KJVR) 
For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
(Isa 66:16 KJVR) 
For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
(Isa 66:17 KJVR) 
They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
(Isa 66:18 KJVR) 
For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

Again like all of the parables of the Bible the Lord will deal with the "many" who were slain when they first believed ,and then were later healed. Unlike the true believers who remain dead and let Christ live in them.

The terms "self sanctified and self cleaned" is reminsient to Adam and Eve's attempt to cover themselves with leaves when they were in the garden. True believers are not not self sanctified and get their sanctificastion through Christ and the shedding of his blood.

This verse shows that these people followed "one in the midst".  There were two trees in the garden, Adam and Eve ate of the tree of Good and Evil .  True believers only follow Christ (the tree of Life). 

This verse doesnt mention it but the snake (satan) was there in the garden also.  The whole event in garden centered on the gormandic command "thou shall not eat"  Satan's curse was to eat dust. Adam was made from dust and to dust he will return.  Satan  sits and waits and prowls in search of whom he can devour.

These self righteous folkes are like satan the snake and feed on (things unclean ) swine , abominations and mice ( they eat things offered to idols), like the philistine golden mice. When the ark of the covenant was stolen they finally sent it back with a box of golden tumors/hemorrhoid and golden mice as trespass offerings to pay homage to God and stop the judgement (plague and vermin) against them for thier act. 

Besides the fact that mice are typical snake food in the physical, I also think it was interesting that the mouse according to the Strong concordance on E sword suggested a second sence of attacking or nibbling. To me this is also symbolic of the "many" in Babylon who can only nibble on the word and because of their very tiny stomachs. When they do "eat" they can own shred and attack it with tiny arguments (teeth).   

They are unlike believers who will eat the flesh of Christ, they feed on the meat of the Word. When they confront evil they can then like Christ they can say "It is written".   

The last verse of this 66th chapter in ISA ties it all up and again demonstrates God's grand plan.... that all men including this particular group ......will eventually be brought to God through the lake of fire and will "learn righteousness".

Beloved



I am on a M&M diet:   no Milk or Mieces
 

[Redbird]

Alex,

I thought I'd bring this thread to the forefront, in answer to your question in another thread.  Ray's Hell Part D covers this also.  Can't wait for the next installment.

Lisa

[gmik]

Hey, Lisa, glad you brought that back on.  It is a good one.

I can't wait either for the next installment!

[ez2u]

Diet  a good question  when I had breast cancer  I drank raw juices  mostly vegetable carrot etc... then did alot of cleansing.  I found that the closer I stayed to raw and in the natural state of the food the healthier it was for my body .  I actually looked better slept better and felt better when I changed my diet.  There is alot of great books out on raw foods and juicing  it is much healthier for everyone.  You know Government wants religion in countries to control the population but they don't want the Truth  so it is with health too if people think FDA or the medical profession is here to cure you good luck it just maintains a degree of health.  I know I am stepping on toes here.  I also know there are some great doctors and nurse that just don't know the truth  just like there are some great church people too.  Gen1:19 gives us the diet that is the healthiest for our body.  It took me 10 months to dissolve the cancer in my breast  nor surgery no radiation. I changed my diet I cleanses my body starting with colon and next the liver, kidney, skin.  I have been cancer free for 7 years. When I started the Lord spoke to my heart the road block would be my desires, what I had become accustom too.  This was truth but when I fed my body nourishment I didn't have cravings haunting me and it was more of a mind thing.  I would love to hear if anyone else had this experience of sorts.  Peggy

[gmik]

OMG Peggy.  What a testimony. I am so glad you are well now.  Praise God. ( I will check out Gen 1:19!)

[sasscell]

AWESOME PEGGY!!  I wonder if we could start a thread about diet on the off topic board...I'd love to pick your brain!!

[iris]

AWESOME PEGGY!!  I wonder if we could start a thread about diet on the off topic board...I'd love to pick your brain!!

That sounds like a great idea!!!
And maybe throw in a few recipes? 

Iris

[newoldstock]

I think that this is about people who are not sanctified by the spirit and grace of God. They try to sanctify themselves and pretend to be holy showing outward purity, while inside they just don't get it.

They try to purify themselves with holy water and rituals in their churches, but their worship is idolatry to God. They think that Christ their mediator is in their midst and part of their false worship, but their salvation is false.

These people are pretenders and they do things (eat) forbidden. They are not the Lord's people. They are an abomination and a lie. Their works and thoughts are in vain.

In spite of them, Christ's gospel will be published in all places and all will see the glory of the Lord.

The Lord says I will draw out my people- my chosen ones and make them priests.

Those that rebelled against the Lord are those who remained in the pretend churches. And their spiritual remains are there for all to see. Amen