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Why Punish?

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ned:
CEV Rom 8:19-23 
In fact, all creation is eagerly waiting for God to show who his children are.
Meanwhile, creation is confused, but not because it wants to be confused. God made it this way in the hope
that creation would be set free from decay and would share in the glorious freedom of his children.
We know that all creation is still groaning and is in pain, like a woman about to give birth.
The Spirit makes us sure about what we will be in the future. But now we groan silently, while we wait for God to show that we are his children. This means that our bodies will also be set free.

This verse came to mind while I was reading this thread.

 :) Love,
Marie

Deborah-Leigh:
This is fascinating....

described as agnostic...from your post Joe

a man who says he was an agnostic ...from your post Nancy

Question in relation to the council you bring us Joe...We are admonished not to be timid and to seek and we will find but this lack of growth (as far as spiritual knowledge goes) gives testimony to the scriptures that constantly refer to the spiritually dead.

Is the agnostic plumber who spoke to Nancy and the person who you spoke to perhaps among those who are called out of Mystery Babylon?....Are these the one's called to life from out among those who are spiritually dead? What I am saying here is shouldn't we see beyond the labels that they carry...Agnostic, Atheist etc and see their call out of Babylon which is pretty exciting.
Are these not perhaps Agnostic against the religious spirit and Atheist against Mystery Babylon?....

It is wonderful that we do not jump to any negative conclusions about our  Agnostic or Atheist brothers and sisters when in fact they may be more alive than the dead who being gathered together and buried beneath  white washed sepulchres in Mystery Babylonian Christendom. The insights they share may point to their aliveness in spirit that is still unclothed in knowledge and truth which is so rare. Their desire to remain separate to world religion and the world view of who God is may reveal that they are more alive than dead.

I am not advocating a rebellion against the truth. I do not say that to be Agnostic or Atheist is correct. I am asking, is it perhaps a path into knowledge of the truth and is this perhaps why God put these people on your path.

If we look beyond labels, is this not the way to see. For example. Many Buddhists imitate the nature of Christ in many ways. Once Christ removes the idol of their hearts being devoted to a religion in name and a man named Sidhartha, will they not see how much they are like Christ and then rejoice to the glory of God and the defeat of their idols and worship of a man.  I don't know.

Maybe I should not think so much   ::)

What do you think?

Arcturus :)

hillsbororiver:

--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on November 24, 2006, 12:54:12 PM ---In a conversation with someone who can best be described as agnostic

We had an interesting conversation, who knows where it will lead.

 

--- End quote ---

Good morning Arcturus,

I think you are absolutely correct, we should not shrug our shoulders and walk away from someone who declares themselves an unbeliever but at the same time is seeking to discuss the Lord in a respectful exchange of ideas. Debating with an antagonistic person whether they claim to be "saved," agnostic or an atheist is rarely if ever fruitful.

The Lord very well may be starting His call to these people, they are unable to recognize His voice yet, but He is quite capable of grabbing anyone's attention as He sees fit, at some point in time.

Amen to your verses Marie.

Yes Nancy, it is very possible that your plumber and my aquaintance are hearing a small voice on the horizon and can't quite make it out just yet.

Thank you all for the responses,

Joe





 

Deborah-Leigh:
Thank you Joe

Again you crystalize my thoughts and my searching for clarity is put to rest and peace.

Arcturus :)

gmik:
Are there people who are the chosen, elect who do not speak English and therefore cannot read Ray or us.  Can any be elect and not believe what Ray teaches??  Are there elect Hindis or Buddhists or atheists who may never hear the gospel??

Or to put it an other way.   Are only those who are chosen & elect and will be in the first resurrection just those who were in church but were dragged to this site and have left "babylon" now that we know the truth??

Another thing I have wondered is, the oldest manuscripts that have been translated are still a couple hundred years after Jesus and Paul, so how do we know that that Greek is faithful to the Greek in Jesus' time.  Did anyone besides Josephus write "about" Jesus and Paul?
I don't even think he mentioned them but made obscure references about this new sect.

I am just in a down mood. (see my other post today)

Thanks, if anyone has any thoughts about all this.

gena

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