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Author Topic: Is it Satan, God or a mistake?  (Read 5315 times)

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undignifieddancer

  • Guest
Is it Satan, God or a mistake?
« on: March 31, 2006, 04:22:04 PM »

New here with no freaky agenda...but I want to dig in.

Chronicles & Samuel often tell the same story...especially in the story of David.  With that understood why do we have this huge difference?

2 Samuel 24:1 KJV & many others

"And the again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel and HE moved David against them to say go and number Israel"

Same story....but

1 Chronicles 21:1 KJV & many others

"and SATAN stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel"

So was it God or Satan who provoked David?  Is this a translation mistake in one of the books?  Could it be that God, being the creator of everything (including evil) is both Satan (evil) and God (good) so that these two are truly unimportant?

Either way the story ends the same with God getting XXX by David's actions (provoke by God or Satan) yet He is glorified in the end...like always.

Just wondering what you all thought about this.

Peace
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chrissiela

  • Guest
Is it Satan, God or a mistake?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2006, 05:46:43 PM »

Hi undignifieddancer!

If God 'sent' Satan to test Job, could He not also 'send' Satan to provoke David.... God being the casue of both?

and many other examples - like:

1Sa 16:14  But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

1Sa 16:15  And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

1Sa 16:16  Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

Does Satan do anything outside of the plan or will of God?


Chrissie
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undignifieddancer

  • Guest
Is it Satan, God or a mistake?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2006, 12:14:47 PM »

Chrissie,

Thank you for the response.  I really like your insight on this topic.  I believe that God created everything there is and that nothing exist that He didn't make...like in John 1:1.

Therefore God created things of evil for His ultimate glory.  For me this is very plain...but other Christians seem to struggle with God being the author of the bad as well as the good.  Again...its all for His glory.  If God isn't the creator of everything...then He isn't God.

Peace
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ertsky

  • Guest
Is it Satan, God or a mistake?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2006, 12:34:22 PM »

Quote
Could it be that God, being the creator of everything (including evil) is both Satan (evil) and God (good) so that these two are truly unimportant?


that sentence there is a bit of a worry!

starts off ok...

God is the creator of everything

but then goes on to say

God IS BOTH Satan and God

a most horrendous and non sensical error


scripture teaches and i believe that God created Satan, how could He then BE Satan

this is what i would call a vile blasphemy, and a hideous lie

then the sentence ends

so that these two are truly unimportant?

anyone who thinks God and Satan are unimportant is in a very precarious position methinks

well that sure was one dodgy sentence

but i do believe God works all after the counsel of His own will

f
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undignifieddancer

  • Guest
Is it Satan, God or a mistake?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2006, 04:45:56 PM »

ertsky,

Certainly that sentence is a very weak one indeed.  It did not come out the way I intended.  Just as I am not God but His creation, Satan is not God but His creation as well.

My point is that we were both created for His glory.

Sorry to be unclear.

Peace
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ertsky

  • Guest
Is it Satan, God or a mistake?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2006, 05:10:12 PM »

oh no worries undignifieddancer

yeah i've typed out some classics in my time to

earlier tonight i typed

we will sow what we have reaped LOL!

glad i caught that one in time :)

peace

f

PS: sorry i came on so strong but we've had some real dodgy posts lately and i'm really keeping a lookout for anything untoward.
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nightmare sasuke

  • Guest
Is it Satan, God or a mistake?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2006, 09:24:50 PM »

I see it this way. God created both evil and good (Isa 45:7), for a purpose, and uses evil for his purpose. For example, “The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for [a purpose:] the day of evil� (Pro 16:4). But God is not evil himself. This might sound bad, but I think of Satan as God's hand, more so a tool (figuratively speaking).

"But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face" (Job 1:11).

But was it God's actual and literal hand that touched "all that [Job]" had? No:

"And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD� (Job 1:12).

Satan said, "…put forth thine hand now,â€? but God’s hand was not literally put forth against Job, but Satan himself. Satan is, in a way, God’s  hand, because God uses him as a tool (as humans use hammers to drive nails into wood).

God “created the waster to destroy� (Isa 54:16). Rather than God destroying things himself, he sends Satan to do it for him. But, nevertheless, God is behind it; just like a human hand does not pound in a nail, but a hammer, and yet the human still controls the hammer.

Do any of you understand what I am getting at?
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Chris R

  • Guest
Hi
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2006, 12:05:30 AM »

Hello,

 Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.  

Yes..Even Satan was created "VERY GOOD" for the purpose in which he was created,

Man doesnt rule Satan....GOD DOES.

Chris R
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nightmare sasuke

  • Guest
Re: Hi
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2006, 12:09:13 AM »

Quote from: Chris R
Hello,

 Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.  

Yes..Even Satan was created "VERY GOOD" for the purpose in which he was created,

Man doesnt rule Satan....GOD DOES.

Chris R


Moreover, man was "very good" despite being created "naked" and from the "dust." Truth be told, from a view "under the sun," man and Satan were not "good" in the sense that we define good, but as you said Christ R, were good "for the purpose in which [they were] created."
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undignifieddancer

  • Guest
Is it Satan, God or a mistake?
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2006, 11:37:05 AM »

"Do any of you understand what I am getting at?"  

Nightmare,

I'm with you one hundred percent on this.  I too believe that God uses all of His creation to extend His glory...even the evil.  How else are we to know how glorious and bright His light truly is if we can't see the darknes as well?
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