Hi Marie and Kat
This is what I see from where I am standing…..Marie
You wrote :
Take a toddler for example. Even at the tender age of 1 or 2, the toddler is concerned ONLY for themselves. It is me, me, me. This is the very sinful nature we are born with. Temper tantrums are their way of expressing themselves for not getting their selfish desires. They are sinning even at this young age, because so many times they KNOW what they shouldn't be doing, but they keep doing it to see how far they can get away with fulfilling their own fleshly lusts - (even though this lust seems innocent enough to us compared to the fleshly lusts of adults). Did we ever have to teach a child to misbehave? No, they do a fine job on their own.Your comment deepens my insight and understanding that babies will be going in to the lake of fire which for me is symbolic for correction, edification and encouragement into the knowledge of Christ. Not so bad!
Proverbs 22 : 6
Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. I understand what you have shared with Kat regarding your indignation against the Church teachings on accountability. In the Catholic Church they have confirmation rites, and in the Jewish traditions they have Bar mitzvah celebrations into adulthood and so called “accountability”. I have come to perceive that once we believe in our own free will (which doesn’t exist) then we will have to give account for this before God. As you illustrate Marie, little babies start life acting out the attitude that everything must revolve around them or else tantrums follow. If this self centred attitude is the basis for our beliefs then, as the scriptures declare, we will have to explain and account before God for our own arrogance, self willed blindness and folly and for every idle word. Matt 12 : 36 …
every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.As I understand this, those who recognize that God is Sovereign and that no one has uncaused choice, feelings, thoughts, circumstances or actions, then ( for me,) it is those with this awareness who will be the ones who are more likely to be undergoing judgment now. They are more likely to gauge their spiritual strength or weakness against their levels of dependence on God and their levels of faith in His wisdom through whatever circumstances God causes them to walk through. For them trials, tribulations and circumstances are but tests of faith and dependence and trust of Christ in God drawing them into deeper reliance on Christ which through Judgment moves them further away from self reliance, self importance or self esteem into deeper sharing the cross with Christ.
By contrast, others who are not in the Judgment NOW, will be trying to impress God, living by the law, trying to be Godly self-approved self-appointed helpers of God. (These helpers, call themselves servants of God which veils their eyes from the fact that they actually really think and believe that they have the power of choice to please or serve God and they teach and lead others into the same heresy. The age or time of accountability meaning for them that it is all up to their choices and their free will as clocked in by man made traditions and customs that void the word of God for those who neither know the Scriptures or the power of God. Blind leading the blind.) Non have power and non have uncaused choice and it is these under illusion who will be measuring themselves and others in pious comparison against their own good deeds, how much they give to charity, how big their works are, how large their Church is or how wide their support is in TBN land, New York best sellers book lists, and they will show off their good deeds before men and ultimately in defiance before God…….Pity them of whom it is written…
Matt 7 : 22 …
Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name: and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works:Rev 2 : 2…
I know thy worksRev 2 : 9…
I know thy worksRev 2 : 13
I know thy worksRev 2 : 19
I know thy worksRev 3 : 1
I know thy worksRev 3 : 8
I know thy worksRev 3 : 15
I know thy worksGod knows EVERYTHING. The message. Get over it …overcome self, get over works, overcome self-will, self-approval self-justification, self- importance, self-rationalization self-aggrandizement, self self self self…..and to over come self esteem, for me, the worlds most insidious seductive and heinous anti Christ perversion in teaching ever.
Rev…
And to him who overcomes…I will give…I will give…I will give…. and He has already given HIMSELF. , and we will who are called, and we will who are chosen and we will who are judged now and we….
Chris R wrote :
ALL will be judged, Were is it written differently? So for me this all points to one thing. We are all accountable and we all begin life learning how to have a good self-esteem. We are all mistakenly lead, trained and coerced through worldly teachings to believe and experience the illusion that we have free choice etc which places our ego on the throne while displacing God and His Sovereignty in our own deluded minds. In this we all fall short by Gods design, plan purpose and intention. Only Jesus who never sinned was never accountable because He was always responsible and for me, is from the beginning Gods Son. In our beginning we are Gods weak children being trained up into spiritual strength and right standing with God. I agree with you Marie that we are called, chosen and dragged only by God in His time according to His will and plan for us individually. For me there is no age benchmark for this to happen. God can call and choose anyone, any time, any where anyhow. No one can pre-empt God or cause God to work according to our perceived will. We line up with God’s will God doesn’t line up to our perceived mistaken free will or choice. God doesn’t change. We have to and God causes our changes.
I believe accountability comes from our, by design, spiritual weakness and is the parent of blame shifting and all the mental ills that manifest in the powerful grip of this illusion. We confuse accountability with responsibility. We confuse free will with caused will. We confuse God with ourselves. We experience these ills through our own weakness in spirit and weakness of spiritual strength. Our weakness is beyond our comprehension until God takes hold of us to show us a thing or two like Bible Truths and LOF the Beast Within and the Myths of Free will revelations and trials and tribulations.
We all experience painful trials and tribulations. As God causes us to begin to succumb yield and submit under HIS chastisement, training and disciplining which is HIS work on us as He pleases to do and will, then we become broken not as in shattered but as in yielding, obedient, submissive pliable as we are broken into meekness and prepared for the knowledge that God alone is Sovereign. This knowledge takes away our wildness as we are grafted into this truth of the true vine and as we begin to feel the sap of the truth enter into our thoughts and minds changing us from our wildness wilderness mentality by conforming us into His purity of faith and dependence and trust in His responsibility for us.
I think THE Free Will LOF teaching is THE mega disclosure of OUR times. That our eyes have read it, that our hearts have contemplated its message means for me, that we have been the ones to enter into the Holy Sanctuary of Gods mysteries, holiness and power. It may appear on a number of pages on the internet but it is explosive in its power, it is pure in its message and it for me is from the Spirit of Christ teaching us disciples the Truth.
Accountability for me is a spoof like free will. They (for me) belong in the same stables of error and illusion. Like you say Marie….when does anyone get chosen or called of their own free choice or free will? All is of God. The times are in His hands. This is not dependent on our age, on our traditions, our Churchy confirmations or Synagogue Bar mitzvah’s or on anything of man. It is all-dependent on God. I am not saying we are not going to be judged or held accountable for our trust in free will. I am saying that as we are released from and as we let go of the illusion that we have free-will, our accountability will transform to conformity in Christ’s image. This is how I see it.
Ecc 3 : 1-
To EVERYTHING there is a season, and a time for EVERY MATTER or purpose under heaven.
14 I know that whatever God does, it endures forever, nothing can be added to it nor anything taken from it. AND GOD DOES IT SO THAT MEN WILL REVERENTLY FEAR HIM REVERE AND WORSHIP HIM knowing that HE IS. For me reverent fear can only occur as and when we receive illumination from God that reveals HIS Sovereignty to us. As we can see already, some revolt and scream heresy while hurling abuse and pious indignations like the Pharisees did in the time of Jesus when they first see this free will is their pampered god-self free will idolatry. Once exposed they will try to resist, hide, deny and even try to kill, maim, tarnish, discredit, oppose, blot out and cancel its revelation…. while some of us, blessedly embrace God as God.
Ecc 12 : 13,14 All has been heard; the end of the matter is; Fear God, revere and worship Him, knowing that He is, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole of man, the full, original PURPOSE of His creation, the object of God’s providence, the root f character, the foundation of all happiness, the adjustment to al inharmonious circumstances, and the conditions under the sun and the whole duty for every man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it is good or evil.
Peace to you
Arcturus