> General Discussions
Satan - Saved or Reconciled - Is There a Difference?
Kat:
Hi Darren,
I thought i would mention that the scripture in Isaiah 14 are not talking about Satan at all.
Here is an excerpt from Ray's article.
http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html ---------------------------------
ONE OF THE BIGGEST LIES IN ALL CHRISTENDOM
("How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer")
Theologians have been teaching for centuries now that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 give us a perfect explanation of how a perfect Lucifer changed himself into Lucifer the Devil.
First Isaiah 14. To whom is God addressing Himself in these verses we quoted above?
"That you shall take up this proverb against the KING OF BABYLON..." (Ver. 4)
God is speaking of and to and about, "the King of Babylon," not Lucifer, not Satan, not a cherub. And God tells us the end of this man’s reign:
"Your pomp is brought down to the grave [Satan never died or was put in a grave], and the noise of your viols [harps or lutes]: the worm [or maggots] is spread under you [can maggots eat a spirit body], and the worms cover you" (Ver. 11).
But is not this "Lucifer" of verse 14 not Satan the Devil?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The scripture is a mystery.
But it plainly states "to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.
Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Eph 1:8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight
Eph 1:9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ
Eph 1:10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
Satan is one of the all, this is just comon sense that it means things with the mind to understand who Christ is, and not dumb animals.
Chris, in Rev.20:13 ...And each one of them was judged according to their works.
He must have works, and new born babies do not have works.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
YellowStone:
Kat,
I fully realize what Ray states about "Lucifer," but I find it very interesting that he is holding onto the literal meaning and not the spiritual.
Am I the only one that can see the OBVIOUS connection between the "King of Babylon" and Satan.
Isa 14:6-15
* v6 - He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, [and] none hindereth.
* v7 - The whole earth is at rest, [and] is quiet: they break forth into singing.
* v8 - Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, [and] the cedars of Lebanon, [saying], Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
* v9 - Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet [thee] at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, [even] all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
* v10 - All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
* v11 - Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [and] the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
* v12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
* v13 - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
* v14 - I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
* v15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Granted Ray is correct that the literal reference of Lucifer is concerning the "King of Babylon," who then is the spiritual in reference too?
Love to you,
Darren
Kat:
Hi Darren,
I see your point.
That is a good observation.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
sansmile:
Hi all,
The KIng of babylon was used by satan, tempted by him. That doesn't mean he "was " satan.
Ther is no witness to the scripture
((Isa 14:12) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!That confirms Satan was called Lucifer.
With regard to the bugs and mosquitos etc being reconciled...............bugs and mosquitos DONT have logic....they don't sin.
Satan had enough logic to twist scriptiure and lie!
(Gen 3:1) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Joh 8:44) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Sansmile (sandie)
hillsbororiver:
Hello everyone,
I have perused this thread and I think one thing (forgive me if I missed someone else stating this) that everyone is forgetting that when it is written about being "saved" this is speaking of the "elect" those of the called who are being judged now, or during their present life. Are not the elect to judge angels?
All will eventually be saved, after the WTJ and after going through the LOF (which is Christ and the elect). It helps to keep things in perspective when we see the bible (a giant parable) as being primarily for the benefit of His chosen, it is not given to the multitude(s).
It is a shame that due to a lack of patience and longsuffering that strife replaced edification.
His Peace and Wisdom to you all,
Joe
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version