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Will Satan get saved part 2
gmik:
Thank you for your loving responses. I hope Andy will read these.
Kat, when the elect are reigning with Christ what body are we in?? I guess I never thought about it, but all the people on Earth are living life as usual, correct?? How are we judging and ruling with a rod of iron?? Then when all the physical get devoured from fire on high, where are we then.
See, I have all these questions but then I say it is vain babblings, so who really knows or cares? I am conflicted to be sure. I just want to make sure I am serving/pleasing the Lord today! But then I start wondering..........
::) Love you all,
gena
hillsbororiver:
Hello everyone,
I have been a bit reserved here of late but I do feel the need to make a few comments, ask a few questions.
Did Andy give Ray an opportunity to review his (Andy's) "revelation from God?" Was Andy a bit presumptuous in the accusation he hurled? How does one determine if a revelation is from God or someplace else? Does Satan know how to quote scripture?
I have seen this happen many times in the past, a member here has a question or a different take on a subject (nothing wrong with that) and then goes off on a tirade, leaves in a huff without any consideration of the possibility that they just might be mistaken or have a lack of understanding at this point in time. There seems to be no room with some folks for humble, sober or patient study. Where does this spirit eminate from?
Bobby made an excellent point when he said we are followers of Christ and not of Ray or any other human being, with that being said I doubt anyone can honestly state that Ray has not been given a spiritual gift of teaching, it has been slowly revealed over a long period of studying, trials, tribulations, sacrifice and diligence. The work that the Spirit has done through him has given comfort, peace and hope to many (myself very much included) and it pains me to see accusations like this being hurled by someone, anyone, that hasn't the experience or knowledge to attempt to teach in such an authoritive manner, there lies the heresy!
I would hope in the future that if there are any severe disagreements with the articles on Bible Truths that they are taken directly to Ray while providing the scriptural witnesses to refute, not to take a few verses and human logic, mix them together into a sermon and exalt oneself up as the bearer of truth and light.
It is my hope that we can all study, learn, share and edify humbly together and not get caught up in throwing accusations when we are not in agreement on any particular subject, we must be as the Bereans not only when we dissect someone else's writings but (especially) our own as well.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
YellowStone:
Hi Joe, :)
I read your response and then reread my last post and I did find that I was a little terse. For this I apologize. :(
It is very hard learning new Scriptural concepts and forgetting those previously held close to the heart. I will be the first to stand up and say that Ray has been such a blessing in my life. He has reaffirmed so many of my previous God given beliefs that had never been affirmed by anyone. He has also opened my eyes to new truths, some which I had never previously considered; however, following Ray's in depth study, the pieces all seemed to fit perfectly.
I found Ray to be very spiritually enlightened, something which I cannot say about any other priest or minister I have previously known. I think this is wonderful, but it is not and can never be everything.
Here's why :)
Col 4:3
* Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:
Paul was without enlightened by God, being able to speak and reveal the mystery of God. (Something Ray does well) However, there is a catch. Understanding.
Col 1:9
* For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
Everyone posting to this board (myself included) must always be needful of the understanding of others. Ray is no different than anyother person on this Earth. He can speak the words, but God grants understanding.
So here is the seemingly paradox. On one hand we all seek the truth, but we're all at different levels of understanding. I can sympathize with Andy, in that I believe by the power of God, that there is NO WAY that he will cleanse Satan. This is my God given understanding. I am not saying it is right, neither am I say I am wrong. Anything said that makes me question my belief has to be revealed by God first so that understanding can occur.
I believe that all here are very sincere in their search for truth, but we must never forget that the words on this forum (Rays included) are like sown seeds, we plant, God germinates. We may Speak diligently and emphatically, siting Scripture all the while, but unless God grants understanding, the words are meaningless.
We must pray to God that he grants us understanding and wisdom so that we can best share it. God has granted me so much, and I would be a fool to suggest that I know it all. Ray and many others regarding this topic maybe 100% correct. Who cares?
Seriously, who really cares? Because after we have searched the Scripture, prayed for understanding and feel closure from God, then this is all that we need. God will reveal all in his time.
I found the following Scripture that I think is worth sharing :)
Philippians 3:12-16
* 12 - Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
* 13 - Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
* 14 - I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
* 15 - All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
* 16 - Only let us live up to what we have already attained.[/b]
So before I forget, I thank you for stepping in and speaking wisely to us. :) I pray that Andy will return; for we are all in this together.
This whole discussion has been very beneficial in a number of ways.
Love to you all,
Darren
stego:
Hi all,
I just wanted to say that I was also just expressing my opinion on this topic in my posts. The whole point of this forum is for us to discuss things. I don't see where this discussion was ever not in a spirit of love.
Sean
hillsbororiver:
Hi Darren,
Thank you for your thoughtful response, there is much truth in the words you wrote.
My belief on this issue can again be made by questions.
1. Did God create Satan as he is or did Satan "choose" his role all by himself?
2. Does God have the power to change/purge the devil of his evil nature?
3. What does scripture mean when it is stated repeatedly that "all things" are created by Him, for Him and will be in subjection to Him?
Admittedly this is not really a subject that I meditate on, it is difficult enough praying & working through my own walk with Him, staying focused through the trials and dying to self, I can understand that this may be a tough pill to swallow but it is my belief that when God says "all" He means "all" and that it is well within His power to bring it to fruition.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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