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Who will be married to who?
Prosizz:
Joe, I am going to ask this again one more time then drop it. Where does it say that Jesus and the elects are going to reign spiritually as spiritual beings over physical beings? The scriputures I have seen so far do not stipulate such thing.
I will be looking forward to Ray's writing on the subject.
Thanks.
Prosizz:
Ok Kat I see your point now base on the scripture you quoted. Please don't get me wrong, I beleive Christ is going to reign with the elects but I am not clear on the interpretation you gave. I am of a different opinion but I will wait patiently to read Ray's writing on the subject as he told Sue he will be writing in the future on the subject.
Thanks for you endeavor to explain.
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Prosizz on December 05, 2006, 02:44:25 PM ---Joe, I am going to ask this again one more time then drop it. Where does it say that Jesus and the elects are going to reign spiritually as spiritual beings over physical beings? The scriputures I have seen so far do not stipulate such thing.
I will be looking forward to Ray's writing on the subject.
Thanks.
--- End quote ---
Hello Prosizz,
I will give it one more try, then I promise to leave it alone.
Rev 20 (King James)
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them (symbolic), and judgment was given unto them (not symbolic): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God (mainly symbolic), and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads , or in their hands (symbolic); and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years (time frame symbolic).
5But the rest of the dead (The risen Saints are ruling over some group, the humans who are alive at His coming, it plainly states all the other dead are still dead.) lived not again until the thousand years were finished (time frame symbolic). This is the first resurrection (not symbolic).
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection (definitely not symbolic): on such the second death hath no power (not symbolic), but they shall be priests of God and of Christ (not symbolic), and shall reign with him a thousand years.
If the rest of the dead stay that way until after the thousand years were finished, who exactly do Christ and His Elect rule over during the Millenium?
I know there are those who believe they are reigning with Christ now but we are not yet a finished, completed product, we have not endured to the end. Christ is reigning in the elect but the elect have not been raised "incorruptable" as long as they are still living in the flesh. Only after the 1st resurrection will the elect be "incorruptable."
We can respectfully agree to disagree if we must.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
Prosizz:
I respectfully follow you interpretation of things and I do agree with the scriptures you have quoted with the blue writings to emphasized symbolic and non-symbolic aspect of those scriptures. So just as you say we can agree to disagree here cause, the question it self that "If the rest of the dead stay that way until after the thousand years were finished, who exactly do Christ and His Elect rule over during the Millenium?" does not justify the assumption that Christ is ruling over physical beings in the millenium while he and the elects are spiritual beings.
What I have liked with Ray's teaching is how he supports everything he says with scriptural reference with at least one witness. Here the question you pose is based on you interpretation that since some of the deads are not participant in Christ and the elects reign then Christ and the elects must be ruling over physical beings who are yet to die (no specific scriptural reference).
By the way I do not beleive that I am reigning with Christ this very instant.
Thanks Joe for your input, perhaps is not yet time for me to grasp it yet but I will agree to disagree with you for the moment.
Ciao.
sansmile:
Hi all,
I am not great at explaining myself but will try to show what i have saw in the scriptures.
In the following scriptures it shows how we meet the Lord when He comes:
[(1Th 4:16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(1Th 4:17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I have read somewhere in Rays teachings about the meaning of the word meet, which is used here. He said that when the elect meet Him, it's like when someone meets an important person to escort them e.g the president visits a foreign land and is MET by the people of that land and brought to where they have to go. So what Ray was saying is that i verse 17 those alive and in Christ will MEET Christ in the clouds but then come back to earth to rule those that are there. Mankind! Non -believers.
Will try and find where he talks about this and post after.
Also, I believe but i may be wrong? that in Isa, its talking about the millenium rule;
(Isa 30:16) But ye said, No; for we will flee upon horses; therefore shall ye flee: and, We will ride upon the swift; therefore shall they that pursue you be swift.
(Isa 30:17) One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.
(Isa 30:18) And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.
(Isa 30:19) For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.
(Isa 30:20) And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:
(Isa 30:21) And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.
(Isa 30:22) Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence.
(Isa 30:23) Then shall he give the rain of thy seed, that thou shalt sow the ground withal; and bread of the increase of the earth, and it shall be fat and plenteous: in that day shall thy cattle feed in large pastures.
(Isa 30:24) The oxen likewise and the young asses that ear the ground shall eat clean provender, which hath been winnowed with the shovel and with the fan.
(Isa 30:25) And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
(Isa 30:26) Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.
(Isa 30:27) Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:
(Isa 30:28) And his breath, as an overflowing stream, shall reach to the midst of the neck, to sift the nations with the sieve of vanity: and there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people, causing them to err.
(Isa 30:29) Ye shall have a song, as in the night when a holy solemnity is kept; and gladness of heart, as when one goeth with a pipe to come into the mountain of the LORD, to the mighty One of Israel.
(Isa 30:30) And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
(Isa 30:31) For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.
(Isa 30:32) And in every place where the grounded staff shall pass, which the LORD shall lay upon him, it shall be with tabrets and harps: and in battles of shaking will he fight with it.
(Isa 30:33) For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.
Right through to isa chapter 33 talks of this, up until the judgement.
(Isa 33:6) And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD is his treasure.
(Isa 33:7) Behold, their valiant ones shall cry without: the ambassadors of peace shall weep bitterly.
(Isa 33:8) The highways lie waste, the wayfaring man ceaseth: he hath broken the covenant, he hath despised the cities, he regardeth no man.
(Isa 33:9) The earth mourneth and languisheth: Lebanon is ashamed and hewn down: Sharon is like a wilderness; and Bashan and Carmel shake off their fruits.
(Isa 33:10) Now will I rise, saith the LORD; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.
(Isa 33:11) Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
(Isa 33:12) And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
(Isa 33:13) Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.
(Isa 33:14) The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
(Isa 33:15) He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
(Isa 33:16) He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
(Isa 33:17) Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.
(Isa 33:18) Thine heart shall meditate terror. Where is the scribe? where is the receiver? where is he that counted the towers?
(Isa 33:19) Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive; of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand.
(Isa 33:20) Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.
(Isa 33:21) But there the glorious LORD will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby.
(Isa 33:22) For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.
Am i way off here??
God Bless You all
Sansmile (sandie)
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