Hi Victoria,
I found a few emails of Ray's on baptism.
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Baptism
« on: November 05, 2006, 08:45:40 AM »
There ae different baptism by different denominations.
My question is how where man baptized - according to Matthew 28:19 or Acts 2:38?
Which one is right?
Dear Jase:
Matt. 28:19--"...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost"
is not Scripture. It is not found in early manuscripts. It is an erroneous addition, as the Apostles
never followed this spurious instruction. As to whether one should be baptized in water at all,
rather than into the death of Jesus Christ, is the subject of a paper I might write in the future.
God be with you,
Ray
Baptized?
« on: July 01, 2006, 05:21:00 PM »
How are you doing? Please tell me something, do we HAVE to be baptized in the name of JESUS or by the Father, SON, and Holy Ghost? Which one is it? One more thing, I heard Palestine wants peace. The time is near, don't you think. What is the name of your church by the way. God bless Mr. Ray.
Sincerely yours,
Emmanuel
P.S.
Email me if you could, Please.
Dear Emmanuel:
Not to sound cute, Emmanuel, but I don't have a church. I am a member of GOD'S CHURCH, and it is a spiritual organism, not a physical building with man-made creeds.
Paul stopped baptizing altogether after he learned that no physical ritual will make anyone spiritual. We are baptized in spirit, not water; we are circumcised in spirit, not in the flesh; we partake of Christ's body not in the physical with bread, but in the spirit, etc.
Matt. 28:19--"...baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit....:" IS NOT SCRIPTURE. That part of a verse was inserted by the Catholic Church hundreds of years after the apostles.
God be with you,
Ray
[Ray Replies]
Thank you for your email and question.
I don't have the time to write an whole article on the subject in an email. One day I will do that and post it on my site. But in a nut shell:
Paul tells us that we no longer know Jesus AFTER the flesh. Jesus Christ came IN THE FLESH to lead us INTO THE SPIRIT. It was paramount to be CIRCUMCISED, KEEP HOLY DAYS, KEEP SABBATH, PAY TITHES, and many PHYSICAL THINGS under the law of Moses.
Jesus came with binding laws of the spirit. In Matt. 5, 6, and 7 Jesus said
"you have heard it said [by the LAW OF MOSES]..." that you are to do this or do that, but Jesus said, "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU..."
And then He gave a different and contradicting law.
Examples:
"Swear" under Moses / DON'T SWEAR AT ALL UNDER CHRIST.
"Hate your enemies" under Moses / LOVE YOUR ENEMIES UNDER CHRIST!
"Don't commit adultery" under Moses / DON'T EVEN LOOK TO LUST AFTER A WOMAN UNDER CHRIST!
Get the point?
God said he would write His NEW COVENANT (not a revised version of the OLD COVENANT) upon the minds and hearts of His followers.
Circumcision was so very important to every Jewish man. Paul said "Circumcision IS NOTHING"!!!
So drastic was this change brought about by Jesus Christ, that Paul said that a PHYSICAL JEW of the PHYSICAL NATION OF ISRAEL, who is PHYSICALLY CIRCUMCISION in the flesh only, IS NO JEW AT ALL!!! But a GENTILE, not of the nation of Israel, and NOT PHYSICALLY CIRCUMCISED in the flesh, but CIRCUMCISED IN HIS HEART, HE, A GENTILE, IS A JEW!!! (Rom. 2:27-29).
Now then, with that in mind turn to Col.2:19-13:
"And ye are COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power: In Whom also ye ARE CIRCUMCISED [how?] with the circumcision MADE WITHOUT HANDS, in putting off the body of the SINS OF THE FLESH by the CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST: buried with Him in BAPTISM [how? same way! "without hands" or water], wherein also ye ARE RISEN WITH HIM through the faith of the operation of God, Who has raised Him from the dead. And you, being DEAD IN YOUR SINS and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he quickened [made alive] together with Him, having FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES."
According to Paul, "How many baptisms are there?"
"There is ONE body, and ONE Spirit, even as ye are called in ONE hope of your calling; ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE BAPTISM, ONE God and Father of all, Who is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Eph. 4:4-6).
Water baptism avails us NOTHING unless we are BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST (Rom. 6:3-7) with a baptism WITHOUT HANDS--not of the letter and the flesh, but of the SPIRIT!
Nothing that we do that starts in the flesh can add one cubic to our spiritual stature.
Hope that helps your understanding a little better.
God be with you,
Ray
[Ray Replies]
Dear Francis:
Thank you for your email and comments.
So you believe that the PHYSICAL foreskins no longer apply to we Believers of the Nations, but that the PHYSICAL water of baptism most certainly does still apply. They are one and the same, Francis. Physically cutting off the foreskin and physically being placed under water are PHYSICAL RITUALS. They accomplish NOTHING with the spirit. Until Christ comes into our lives we SHOULD be physically circumcised, physically baptized, and physically give our tithes of farm produce to the Levites, but when the REALITY [Christ] of all of those types and shadows COMES, we are no longer under a tutor or schoolmaster, but we are by faith to go on to maturity (Gal. 3).
John is not speaking of PHYSICAL water and PHYSICAL blood in I John 5:6 & 8. Two things came out of Jesus' PHYSICAL BODY when they pierced Him: PHYSICAL water and PHYSICAL blood (John 19:34). These two things from then on become SYMBOLS of something SPIRITUAL that takes place in us by these two things. Being PHYSICALLY baptizes in PHYSICAL water will not make ANYONE spiritual. Likewise partaking of the Lord's Supper with PHYSICAL wine symbolizing Christ's shed blood will not make ANYONE spiritual. Jesus Christ is the reality of both THE WATER and THE BLOOD.
Throughout the New Testament the apostles teach us concerning the "water and the blood." Here is what the water and the blood symbolize and what they do FOR US:
"...the WASHING [spiritual water] OF REGENERATION, and renewing of the Holy Spirit; which He shed [poured out] on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour" (Titus 3:5b-6).
"That He might sanctify and cleanse it [the church, ver. 25] with the washing of water BY THE WORD" (Eph. 5:36).
Can we not see that the water IS THE WORD of God? Do we get SPIRITUAL clean by being baptized in PHYSICAL WATER? What have we just read? "...washing of water BY THE WORD." Here's a second witness:
"Now ye are clean [washed clean] through the WORD which I have spoken unto you" (John 15:3).
And since these two words "water and blood" are used symbolically to represent spiritual realities, we can even be washed clean in "the blood":
"...and WASHED us from our sins in His own BLOOD" (Rev. 1:5b).
Remember that Jesus said,
"...the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life" (John 6:63)
Therefore:
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born OF WATER [what kind of water? physical water?] and of the SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).
Is Jesus speaking of PHYSICAL WATER and PHYSICAL BAPTISM? Hardly. Look at the next chapter:
"...and He [Christ] would have given you LIVING WATER" (John 4:10).
"Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinks of this water shall thirst again: but whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst: but the water that I shall give shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting LIFE" (Ver. 14)
Water of LIFE, LIVING waters:
"He that believes on Me, as the SCRIPTURE has said [Scripture is God's word, and we are washed with with water of God's WORD], out of his belly shall flow rivers of LIVING WATERS" (John 7:38).
After being baptized by water, the disciples of Jesus were still unconverted. Why even Peter was unconverted (Luke 22:32). Physical water did them little good SPIRITUALLY. However, Jesus promised that they would be baptized with something else:
"For John truly baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with the HOLY SPIRIT not many days hence" (Acts 1:5).
Baptism is of the heart and spirit just as circumcision. If we can't comprehend this spiritual truth, then we are missing the whole point of these types and shadows of which Jesus Christ is the only reality.
God be with you,
Ray
[Ray Replies]
Dear Almon:
Is it the fact that you find a Scripture stating something in the Word of God that you conclude that we should "do it?"
I have absolutely nothing against anyone who wishes to keep the Lord's supper. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to be circumcised or be baptized. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to sacrifice animals or offer sin offerings, burnt offerings, peace offerings and the like.
Gen. 6:14 commands: "Make THEE an ark of gopher wood...." I have nothing against anyone who wants to follow this command and "Make an ark of gopher wood."
There are hundreds of things commanded in the Scriptures. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to do ALL OF THEM. I don't. I never made an ark of gopher wood, and never intend to.
Any just why don "I" do any of these things? Well, actually I used to do some of them. I used to pay my THREE tithes (oh you didn't know that there were THREE tithes?). I was water baptized. I used to wash my brothers feet, and I used to partake of the Lord's supper once a year. And now I don't. Why not? Because there is absolutely nothing physical that can make one spiritual.
Paul baptized at one time in his ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.
Paul used to circumcise in his early ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.
All physical rituals are CARNAL ordinances, and we are no longer under carnal ordinances. We are now under the "Law of the Spirit of Life." "We know longer know Jesus after the FLESH." Jesus HIMSELF said: "The flesh profits NOTHING." "The words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT and they are LIFE."
Although it was mighty important in Christ's time to worship in THIS mountain or in THAT mountain, Jesus Himself said that the time would come (and so it has) that we no longer worship here or there or in this manner or in that manner, with this set of physical rituals, or with that set of physical rituals, but rather WE WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.
We are to WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH! Now then, does anyone think that we can add to those instructions by adding a few physical, carnal, rituals? I think not.
I hope this helps your understanding a little better.
God be with you,
Ray
[Ray Replies]
Dear Frank:
It is true that Jesus was baptized and told the apostles to baptize. With this I have no questions or problems. However, there are MANY things that many people do not see or comprehend in the Scriptures. Let me give you some insight into one of these mysteries:
"Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you INTO ALL TRUTH...AND HE WILL SHOW YOU THINGS TO COME" (John 16;13).
Now then: WHAT "truth?" What truth did the apostles NOT HAVE AT THE END OF CHRIST'S MINISTRY. Remember John 16 is at the Passover supper which was His last day on earth in the flesh. What truth didn't the apostles have? What things was the Spirit to: "SHOW you things to come?" What things? Did Jesus LIE? Did Jesus NEVER EVER show them those things and tell them those truths that He promised on His last day with them? There absolutely WERE new truths and things to come, that the apostles came to see and understand LATER IN THEIR MINISTRY. Why LATER in their ministries, why not NOW? Because:
"I have MANY things to say unto you, but ye CANNOT BEAR THEM NOW" (John 16:12),
that's why.
Paul TOO, was baptized and also baptized others. You say Jesus COMMANDS us to baptize today. Maybe you think God has commanded YOU, Frank, to baptize, but I'll guarantee you something straight from the Scriptures, and you can accept it or not. Jesus Christ didn't commission PAUL TO BAPTIZE!
"FOR CHRIST SENT ME [Paul] NOT TO BAPTIZE, but to preach the gospel..." (I Cor. 1:17).
To US, Frank, "There is ONE GOD..." "ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE BAPTISM" (Eph. 4:5). How many baptisms? ONE! Whose baptism is it? CHRIST'S! We are baptized into CHRIST and HIS DEATH. The ONE FAITH, is not our faith, but the faith that God gave to us as a gift (Eph. 2:
. All we have is a gift--
"But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the GIFT OF CHRIST" (Eph. 4:7).
Must we partake of our OWN baptism to be saved? Can we not claim the ONE BAPTISM OF CHRIST? Yes, of course we can. We lack NOTHING when we have CHRIST, when we are IN CHRIST, and CHRIST IS IN US:
"And ye [ye means ALL OF YOU--everyone of you] are COMPLETE IN HIM..." (Eph. 2:10).
The question is, DO WE BELIEVE IT OR NOT?
Now then, you are familiar with circumcision, are you not, Frank? It is the cutting off of the foreskin of the penis. But we don't have to actually cut off the skin IN THE FLESH IN THE PHYSICAL. That is unless you feel that your "Are NOT complete in Christ" ALONE.
"In whom [Jesus] also ye ARE circumcised with the circumcision made WITHOUT HANDS [without a knife or scissors, without WATER, if you have understanding], in putting off the BODY OF THE SINS OF THE FLESH ['Or are you IGNORANT that whosoever are baptized into... [into water?]...INTO CHRIST JESUS, ARE BAPTIZED [it's not a phony baptism; it's a REAL BAPTISM] into His death? We, then, were entombed together with Him through the BAPTISM INTO DEATH [this baptism is a spiritual baptism into death, not a physical baptism into water], that, even as Christ was roused from among the dead through the glory of the Father, thus we also should be walking in newness of life. For if we have become planted together in the likeness of His death, nevertheless we shall be of the resurrection, knowing this, that our old humanity was crucified together with Him, that the BODY OF SIN MAY BE NULLIFIED, FOR US BY NO MEANS TO BE still slaving for sin, FOR ONE WHO DIES HAS BEEN JUSTIFIED FROM SIN [Rom. 6:3-7] ...putting off the body of the SINS OF THE FLESH by the CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST" (Col. 2:10-11).
Can you not see that it is ONLY the "circumcision OF CHRIST" that counts for anything? It is not OUR OWN PERSONAL PHYSICAL CIRCUMCISION which only 'pictures' the putting off of sin, but does not ACTUALLY AND LITERALLY AND SPIRITUALLY PUT OFF SIN that matters. It is only "the circumcision OF CHRIST" that matters. I don't know how I can say it any clearer. Now then, what does this have to do with "baptism?" EVERYTHING.
Let's pick up on the last few words of verse 11 once more and just continue on to the next verse, seeing that even the King James does not put a PERIOD, but a colon: which shows that the next verse IS CONNECTED IN THOUGHT TO THE PREVIOUS VERSE.
"...in the putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision OF Christ: buried WITH HIM IN BAPTISM."
Oh, the circumcision is WITHOUT HANDS, but the baptism is WITH WATER, is it? NO, a thousand times, NO. The CIRCUMCISION for those who are complete in Christ is WITHOUT A KNIFE AND WITHOUT HANDS and the baptism for those who are complete in Christ is likewise, WITHOUT WATER AND WITHOUT HANDS!!!
Just like with the whole Law of Moses, it foreshadowed SOMETHING BETTER (Heb. 10:1). Jesus Christ is not a shadow of ANYTHING---Jesus Christ is the REAL THING--THE REALITY of which all physical ceremonies, sacrifices, and rituals were but a SHADOW. Stop looking to the "shadows" as though there were REAL POWER in the shadows. There is not. The only power is in the REALITY and the REALITY is JESUS CHRIST IN US. PERIOD.
I hope and pray that the same Spirit of God that enlightened the apostles in their walk with our Lord will also enlighten you on this matter.
God be with you,
Ray
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Author
Topic: Are You Baptized In Jesus Name? (Read 4659 times)