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Without Form and Void

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iris:
Ps. 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth his handiwork
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night showeth knowledge.

Ps.33:6 By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath
of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as a heap; he layeth up the depth
in storehouses. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Ps. 74:16 The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun.
17 Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.

Ps. 136:4 To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.


Iris

hillsbororiver:
Dear MG, Eirik, Mark & Iris,

Thank you for your input, what I am seeing here is that like in the beginning when the Lord formed all things and breathed His Breath of life into His creation that it is a type/shadow of when His Spirit is conceived in us and we begin the (spiritual) journey with Him.

Just as Adam was not a"completed creation" in the sense that God ultimately plans spiritual perfection for all, when we come out of the void of darkness and are conceived as spiritual beings our lives (in Him) have just begun. The physical experiences in the OT are the spiritual experiences of His called and chosen. We are the Israelites being spoken of by the Prophets, we have done (and in my case still fall prey to) all the dumb, selfish, ungodly things we are astonished by when we read of the idol worship, betrayel, insincerity, lusts, etc. sinning that OT Israel was/is guilty of. How many of us say, we would not have built a golden calf as Moses was communicating with the Lord. We would not have betrayed Joseph and sold him into slavery, no way we would have slain a man to take his wife, maybe not physically but how often do we do it spiritually?

All the examples of being in bondage to Egypt, Babylon, Persia, etc. are us as we stumble in our journey, broken and contrite we seek Him to make us whole, to sooth our spirit and give us strength, He works these miracles in us and we renew our commitment to Him only to allow ourselves to fall into bondage once again. I know this is His plan and suits His purpose for our growth but like Ray states in his Free Will (and other) papers we go along with these impulses, our hearts are behind these temptations before we submit to them. 

Any and all comments are more than welcome.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe


  

Sorin:
Wow, this is very interesting, I never looked at it quite like this before. I'll have to study this further, and read the book of Genesis now, and see what kind of things will jump out at me that I missed before.

Good find Joe, Take care,
Sorin

sj:

--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on January 01, 2007, 04:15:10 PM ---Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Jer 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

John 12:46  I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.


While reading earlier today I was struck by how similiar the description in Genesis of the creation of the world is to our condition when first called to Him. Full of darkness, void without real purpose, etc.

This is one of those things that isn't earth shattering or ground breaking but I felt was very interesting, it once again underlines that God uses many avenues to get His point across, that the natural world is also part of His Communication with us and also (as Ray likes to say) that the Bible is one giant parable.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

--- End quote ---

A few months after my 20th birthday, I was leaving my home in pensacola to attend a Assembly of God University in Central Florida... before I left my youth pastor asked me to speak at one of our wednesday night youth meetings. I spoke on "Created in God's Image to Stay That Way."

I spoke out of Gen 1:1-3, Gen 3., Jer 4, and John 1.... and discussed the similarities between the creation story and our own experience with God as he changes us into a new creation.

I was still "in Babylon" at the time so my understanding of this topic was skewed, but interestingly enough, as I recall this is where I really begin to question if what the church was teaching was actually scriptural. Perhaps this is a "earth shattering" revelation after all, atleast it was for me.

I saw this post yesterday morning but did not have time to post, I just wanted to share my own experience with these portions of scripture and how they had a tremendous impact on my life and my beliefs.

It's awesome that God is patient enough to spend 3 years with someone to teach them one lesson about how absolutely AMAZING His plan is for us. Thanks Joe for reminding me of this awesome type/shadow and helping me come to a better understanding of what God was saying all along!

God's Peace
Josh

joyful1:

Joe-
You quoted the following about 'the word that goeth forth'...

Isaiah 55:11  So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
 
And I've always thought that it is interesting to note that the verse just prior compares 'the word' to 'rain,'....so that "in this way" my word goes out and returns to me....

Isaiah 55:10  For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread
to the eater:

And indeed 'the Word' did come down 'from heaven' and like water, like rain, it returned to heaven....received by 'a cloud.' (*turned to invisible vapour, like water, its still water, just in a different form)

I used to think of that as a literal physical cloud...and indeed there was one seen by men that day...but now that I see the "cloud of witnesses" as the spiritual application here...it makes even better sense!

Jesus came (like the word sent out in Isaiah 55:11) and  ' accomplished that which God pleased'.  I used to think that this 'accomplishment' was the cross....and certainly that was central....and He did say 'It is finished' when the cross was done....but there is one thing that he said just before the ascent;

Matthew 23:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The rain/ God's Word, accomplished a LOT that day! ...Joyce

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