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Author Topic: physician assisted suicide and abortion?  (Read 3054 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sj

  • Guest
physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« on: January 05, 2007, 04:35:34 PM »

Just curious if anyone is aware of any emails where Ray may have addressed these topics? I would be interested in his response...

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rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2007, 05:14:32 PM »

Swivel,

  I went back to his website to look for some and did not see any dealing with the two topics you have mentioned.  I would PM parsonssc, he posts most if not all of Ray's e-mails here.  He might be able to direct you to some.  I am going to go through the archives.

  I will post them once I find them.


  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire
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sj

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2007, 05:28:38 PM »

Thanks anne. You are too kind!
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rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2007, 05:36:23 PM »

Swivel,

  You are welcome.  I just went through all the e-mails in the archives and did not find anything.  You do know you are always welcome to e-mail Ray with your questions right?  Though, he may be taking some time to answer them as he is feeling under the weather.

  Secondly,  you are more than welcome to begin a new thread on this topic if you are interested.

  Sincerely,


  Anne C. McGuire
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2007, 06:48:08 PM »

Hi Anne and Swivel,

I will admit that such actions horrified me, the killing of an unborn child is still sickening to my carnal mind. So is the "law" that prevents assisted suicides when medicine is exhausted and all that is left is the sometimes agonizing wait for death.

However, I have a question for you both. We have come out of the world, for we are no longer part of the churches power hungry struggle for money and their greed. We no longer fit that mold. (I hope I qualify)

So having removed ourselves, are we free from worry and concern because everything is according to Gods plan.

Is it enough for us to sit back and say, God's will, will be done. For this is a two edge question, because God's will is being done with me simply asking this question.

I believe in my heart that God does not want us protesting against the world, rather I feel he would prefer us to be fine examples of his chosen people. Surely we must feel compassion for the unborn as well as those suffering silently; that God will remember them in the new heaven and earth.

I do not know but I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on this,

Love,
Darren
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sj

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2007, 07:31:24 PM »

Hey Anne and Darren,

Thanks again for your responses. I also looked through the majority of the emails to see if he covered any of this information. I was alittle weary of starting a thread for discussion of these topics because I feared that it may be considered a "political" discussion and I did not want to be considered an instagator of any tension on the board.

Darren, I agree with you fully... which is the reason for my questioning these subject. I'm fairly young, 23 and am considering taking the necessary steps to becoming a chaplian for our local hospitals/hospices. I know that these are two topics that I will most definitely come into contact with these issues and I want to take the time to have the understanding, if God permits, to be, as you say, "a fine example of His chosen people"...

I have quite a few thoughts on this subject, but limited time at the moment. Perhaps if the moderators read over this thread they can tell us whether it is appropriate for this board.

God's Peace.
Josh

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rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2007, 12:41:13 AM »

Darren,

  Hmmm.  I thought to postpone this reply but I have to reply now.

  I am in no way supporting or condemning these two topics.  I believe we are to be mindful of what is going on in the world and those that suffer injustly.  But I believe that does not give us the right to picket and to cause great disturbances.  I liked how you said yes everything is in God's will so should we sit back and not worry.

  Ahhh I must be careful here lest I get cut by the proberbial double-edge sword.  Jesus has many times in the bible said to show compassion to one another.  We are exhorted to encourage one another.  So yes, I believe that we should be involved in these two issues to the extent that we pray for the victims and the perpertrators [misspelled?].  We should never be apathetic to sin, but neither should we sin in by reacting to sin in anger and other dispcicable displays of anger.  I am in agreeement with your statement in which you said that we are to be examples of His chosen people.  That goes well in line with the bible - Let your light shine before men so that they may see the good deeds that you do and praise your Heavenly Father.  [Sorry if I slaughtered this verse.] 
 
  We are free from the worry.  Matthew 7 exhorts us not to worry about unchangeable things.  Another Scripture exhorts us not to be anxious in everything but in thanksgiving to present our requests to God.  We however are not encouraged to lose our concern and compassion for others.

  I hope this answers your question.  Thanks for asking this question, truly this has been one of my deeper posts.

  Let me know what you think of my reply.

  Sincerely,


  Anne C. McGuire
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2007, 01:16:11 AM »

 :) :) Perfect, if I had a gold star I would give you one.

Christ is shining in you Anne and it is easy to see in your posts.

Love,
Darren
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2007, 11:53:36 AM »

Darren,

I thought your response was right on the money. We have come out of the world and we know what the ultimate destiny of all flesh is. We are admonished to not let the world trouble us and that our Kingdom is not here but above.

We should provide a loving and charitable example to all we come into contact with, if someone recognizes this in us and seeks our opinion on how they should proceed in any given matter we should give them an answer from Christ within us when we can, as far as taking up a worldly cause with marches and picket signs there is no example in the scriptures of Jesus or His apostles taking up some worldly cause or mission that I am aware of.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2007, 11:06:57 PM »

When you see the ultrasound pictures of unborn children (especially the new 4D ones), you can't possibly say it isn't a child.  Science has proven beyond all reason--so this doesn't even have to be a "religious" issue.  I volunteered for a few years at our county fair for anti-abortion group-just manned a booth and passed out leaflets.  That kind of stuff is ok isn't it? Well, I don't do that anymore. Oh, I did participate in holding a sign at the side of the road. It sickens me how many babies our country has killed.  We will be accountable dont ya think?  And yet....we are not of this world.  You are right Anne it is a 2 edge sword.
I wrestle w/ voting too.  To do or not to do!!  Anne, I want to see things simply as a child too.
gena :)
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rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2007, 02:09:55 AM »

Gena,

  I have found out two things that are helping me in my walk with God.

  1.  Become aware of God's prescence in your life and in the world.
  2.  Just be in God's presence.

  You will be amazed how much you can accomplish or rather God can accomplish when youa re out of his way.  This is still relatively hard for me to do, but I am learning.  And when one is in this mindframe, they have the heart and sight of a little child.  Children do this all the time.  They realize their parents presence in their lives and just simply be themselves in the love and presence of their parents.  Pretty amazing what a 6 month old baby can teach me.  You go David-Lee.

  Sincerely,


  Anne C. McGuire
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SandyFla

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2007, 05:37:03 PM »

Hi Anne and Swivel,

I will admit that such actions horrified me, the killing of an unborn child is still sickening to my carnal mind. So is the "law" that prevents assisted suicides when medicine is exhausted and all that is left is the sometimes agonizing wait for death.

However, I have a question for you both. We have come out of the world, for we are no longer part of the churches power hungry struggle for money and their greed. We no longer fit that mold. (I hope I qualify)

So having removed ourselves, are we free from worry and concern because everything is according to Gods plan.

Is it enough for us to sit back and say, God's will, will be done. For this is a two edge question, because God's will is being done with me simply asking this question.

I believe in my heart that God does not want us protesting against the world, rather I feel he would prefer us to be fine examples of his chosen people. Surely we must feel compassion for the unborn as well as those suffering silently; that God will remember them in the new heaven and earth.

With all due respect, I don't believe we should sit back, be quiet and do nothing. Our silence sends a message that we don't have a problem with what is being done--or we just don't care. But if it's God's will, should we try to stop it? What if it is God's will for us to speak for those who have no voice?

The "I'm gonna let God take care of it" argument is like saying, "I'm not going to take medicine because if it's God's will for me to be healed, He will heal me without the medicine. If not, I will suffer with whatever condition for the rest of my life, or I will die. Whatever happens to me is God's will."

God gave us doctors and medicine and common sense to use it to help ourselves. I also believe He gave us a voice and a passion to help the helpless.

I'm not saying we should shoot the abortionists or cause trouble, but neither should we be silent. Jesus had harsh words for those who hurt the innocent and took advantage of the weak.

Just my 2 cents,
Sandy
« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 05:52:04 PM by SandyFla »
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2007, 06:58:16 PM »

Sandy,

I will let Darren elaborate on his statement but what I got from it was that being part of a "change the system" organization puts us back in the system. What I see is that within our circle of family, friends, coworkers if any of them seek advice in a situation like this from us that we should give an answer, an answer that is led by His Spirit in us.

Silence in a scenario such as this would not be the right thing.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe 
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graceman

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2007, 01:17:44 PM »

I beat the blacks were thankful that the abolitionists weren't silent. ???

Every man should be given the freedom to respond as he has determined in his own heart...not by religious coercion.  When we try to figure out 'the party line' for a Christian we are perpetuating the same mentality so many of us left the IC over.  (In a word...legalism.)
We are righteous because of the work of Christ and the Holy Spirit in us...that's enough.

Anyone on the forum seen the movie, 'The Mission'?  It stars Robert DeNiro and Jeremy Irons as two Jesuit priests who respond quite differently to the political/religious oppression of the people they are ministering to.  Highly recommended.

God bless you all.
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sj

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2007, 01:20:43 PM »

I beat the blacks were thankful that the abolitionists weren't silent. ???

You're first sentence made me do a double take =)
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graceman

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2007, 01:04:47 PM »

Hey Swivel...it made me do a double-take too...when I saw it this morning! :D

It was just an extra 'a'...I meant to say 'bet'.  Hopefully, not a Freudian slid. :P
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sj

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2007, 10:34:06 AM »

Found a quote that I thought my apply to this thread...

"All religious and political systems, Right and Left alike, are the work of human beings. Abba's children will not sell their birthright for any mess of pottage, conservative or liberal. They hold fast to their freedom in Christ to live the gospel-uncontaminated by cultural dreck, political flotsam, and the filigreed hypocrisies of bullying religion."

-Brennan Manning, Abba's Child
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graceman

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2007, 06:10:54 PM »

Well taken quote, Swivel.  I've read quite alot of Brennan Manning's work and really enjoyed him.  He's come a long way in understanding from his Catholic beginning. 
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sj

  • Guest
Re: physician assisted suicide and abortion?
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2007, 06:57:38 PM »

My favorite is the ragamuffin gosepl!
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