> General Discussions
"When the towers falls"-Free Will?
Brett:
Hi M@tt,
--- Quote ---I understand living an imperfect life, but would God be the author of every single bad desicion or act of sin that we are ever involved in? I've always been crossed on this. I realize God creates evil, but does He basically force us into EVERY act or thought? I'd be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts and evidence on this.
M@tt
--- End quote ---
No, God never force us to decision or sin. See Ray's response about force sin below:
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2546.0.htm
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2545.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2354.0.html
Hope these help you.
Brett
Sorin:
--- Quote from: mari_et_pere on January 07, 2007, 02:59:33 AM ---
Ray said:
--- Quote ---People go against God's will ALL DAY LONG. That's what most
peoples' lives consist of--going against God's will. It is God's purpose, plan, and
intentions that absolutely no one has ever or ever will go against. Listen: It is
God's purpose and plan that people GO AGAINST HIS WILL. He purposes for
people to go against His will. It is God's will that we all become PERFECT as He
is perfect, but it is in His sovereign plan that we all live very imperfect lives before
God begins to change us into perfecion.
--- End quote ---
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I understand living an imperfect life, but would God be the author of every single bad desicion or act of sin that we are ever involved in? I've always been crossed on this. I realize God creates evil, but does He basically force us into EVERY act or thought? I'd be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts and evidence on this.
M@tt
--- End quote ---
You know, I've had that same thought myself. Is God 'the author of every single bad decision or act of sin that we are ever involved in' or from my perspective, every single bad decision that I've ever made in my entire life, all the things that I regret, all the things that I'm ashamed of, and would rather die than have exposed?
It's still something I don't fully understand, but in a way I look at it like this: God doesn't force us to sin, we do it willingly from our hearts. You may ask how so if we don't have a 'free will' well I put it like this. God created males and females [ talking about the straight ones here] and gave them hormones, and made them attractive one to the other. God also proclaimed that it's a sin to have pre-merital sex, now, God doesn't have to 'force' those two to give into their lusts and sin, they do it willingly, they volunteer, they make the decision to do it. But what was the cause? Well God is the cause. How so you ask? Well Say for example, God was the one that made it so that
they would both be in a place where they are all alone and all they needed was the oppurtunity and they both jumped on it. Thus, they both willingly made the decision to sin.
I know it's not a very good explaination, but I was attempting to show how God doesn't 'force' us to sin, we volunteer for it, all we need is the oppurtunity and we go for it. It's like God created us too spiritualy weak not to sin, and He knows when we are going to sin because we're to weak to resist the cause and in so doing, we do it willingly.
I hope that helps your understanding.
Take care,
Sorin
mari_et_pere:
As a child I attended a Christian school from age 4 until I was 16. We were taught that God knows all, that He knows everything that hasn't even happened yet. I always believed that. Obviously He does for all things are done by Him.
I think that thinking He knows what you will do next is the flip side of the absence of free will. He knows what you're going to do, so even if you have the "will to decide", He already knows what the decision will be, which makes "free will" more like pre-destiny? Yes? ??? I confused myself again.
Maybe it's more like: He already knows what we'll do or think, so he already knows the decision that we'll make with our free will? Which means that even if we have free will, free will's outcome is already known by Him??? Man I'm blowing a circuit here! [fizzle fizzle pop!]
M@tt
Sorin:
I recommend you listen to the audio from 01.07.07 about 'free will' being an oxymoron. You can find it in the announcements section. It has helped my understanding, hopefully it will yours too.
Take care,
Sorin
Phazel:
--- Quote from: Brett on January 07, 2007, 03:15:31 AM ---Hi M@tt,
--- Quote ---I understand living an imperfect life, but would God be the author of every single bad desicion or act of sin that we are ever involved in? I've always been crossed on this. I realize God creates evil, but does He basically force us into EVERY act or thought? I'd be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts and evidence on this.
M@tt
--- End quote ---
No, God never force us to decision or sin. See Ray's response about force sin below:
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2546.0.htm
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2545.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2354.0.html
Hope these help you.
Brett
--- End quote ---
I think this is alot of what gets some of us confused. Maybe God does not force us to sin, but it seems like an argument of semantics.
What is the real difference? The key here to our accountability seems to be willingness. But how can our willingness be of "us" if God made us to be willing. Is our "willingness" to sin independant of God?
In the end God is responsible and within this body here no one seems to dispute that, but I am having a hard time with how we are accountable if God made us willing. How is it my choice to be willing if God made me willing to sin?
And if its not my choice, how am I accountable?
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