Question on Sharing UR

[Deborah-Leigh]

Kat

........it is only a joy to be "building up" with you.  It is encouraging Iris that you are being blessed.  ....that is so wonderful that it blesses me too

Anne, I read your enthusiasm for a new thread on MOTIVES....It was really sweet of you and what can I say.....I was drawn away to respond to Paula....and also have been busy to answer Gena on the Corinthinans 13 thread.....

A new thread on Motives simply faded for now...... Hope you understand that this does not mean that you should not open such a thread though. 

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Paula


What more can I say ?

Peace to you

Arcturus

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Arcturus,

  I understand.  Perhaps the thread will come about at a later point of time.  Good thread by the way.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

[rvhill]

John 3:12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

1 Corinthians 3:2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.

Salvation is a personal thing, and it not really important who is saved and not saved.  What is important is that you believe Jesus is the way and only way to your salvation. God will lead everyone to this knowledge in his own time. Also do not try to give a truth to a person who does not want it? Truth like all virtue is a heavenly treasure.


Matthew 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.


Matthew 6:20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

For me  I would say  salvation is best summed up  in 1Co 3, and specially 1Co 3:11 to 3:15

1Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12  But if any man buildeth on the foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13  each man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14  If any man's work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.

[PKnowler]

God will lead everyone to this knowledge in his own time. Also do not try to give a truth to a person who does not want it? Truth like all virtue is a heavenly treasure.


Matthew 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

Thanks for your reply rvhill. I appreciate all that you wrote but I quoted what I think sums it up. I like what you wrote: "Truth like all virtue is a heavenly treasure". I never thought of it like that before- that's good! I have come to the conclusion that it is best not to share with anyone who doesn't want to hear it and as you pointed out- that's scriptural.

Blessings,
Paula

[rvhill]

I don't consider myself a universalist. I think most universalist miss the point. I know there is no afterlife. There is just life and death. Through Jesus there is the hope of a second life. Most people seem to be worried about who will be saved or not, when they need to worry about how they will be saved. Also they seem to forget that there is more then salvation to be gained or lose, as in 1Co 3 and other verses.  As Paul point out, will you suffer loss or a reward. Salvation is a free gift given by the blood of Jesus.

Matthew 6:20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

[Michele]

I don't consider myself a universalist. I think most universalist miss the point. I know there is no afterlife. There is just life and death. Through Jesus there is the hope of a second life. Most people seem to be worried about who will be saved or not, when they need to worry about how they will be saved. Also they seem to forget that there is more then salvation to be gained or lose, as in 1Co 3 and other verses.  As Paul point out, will you suffer loss or a reward. Salvation is a free gift given by the blood of Jesus.

Matthew 6:20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

I am so confused, what does this mean? 
Everytime I think I'm beginning to understand and get the puzzle pieces put together I come across something else that makes no sense to me at all compared to the other things I've been learning? 
"no aferlife"?
"Most people seem to be worried about who will be saved or not, when they need to worry about how they will be saved"
please explain.....

[Kat]

Hi Michele,

I think what rvhill was saying, is that all will be saved in the end.
We should be thinking about how, as in the first resurrection or the lake of fire.

1Ti 2:3  For this is good and acceptable before God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4  who desires all men to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of truth.

What the churches teach is all you have to do is believe and you will be zipped into a heavenly paradise, when you die.
There is so much more to it. 
Everyone will give an account and will be judged, for everything they have done.

Rev 20:13  And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

So for those that think they believe in Christ is all they need, and don't have a thing to worry about, well the lake of fire is going to be a real shock.  Everybody is going to have to answer, for everything that they think they are getting away with now.  It is not going to be a good experience for them, that is what I think the 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' is all about.

Mat 13:49  So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous
Mat 13:50  and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Everybody will have to learn obedience, now judgment on the elect is easier, later in the lake of fire, it will not be a hard experience for the rest.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[marycee]

I have come to believe that the most important thing is not to be double minded, but rather to openly express our true beliefs, without fear of rejection.

I have observed that there are people, and I have -- sad to say -- at times been one of them, who do not allow their expression to represent always what they really are and believe inside. They just blend right in anywhere, no matter what. Jesus would call such "hypocrites." Hypocrite means "actor." We act out a role depending on the situation, and that means hiding our true selves.

if we truly believe there is no eternal hell as taught in most churches, then we should not pretend that we do when it is convenient for our comfort zone to do so. We should not sit close mouthed while someone assumes that we believe a certain way, just so we will not be rejected by those people. We don't have to go around creating situations where we can start preaching at people; nevertheless, we should express, if called upon, the truth as we see it.

For example, if someone is having a personal conversation with you and starts talking about how some "evil person" is going to get his in hell, we should not just smile and nod our heads in agreement. We should pray that God will give us the proper words to express what we really believe -- which includes Scriptural references.

I have been asking God to give me boldness to speak at such times, and the right words to say. I feel I cannot be much use to His calling or purpose if I meekly hide because I am afraid of ridicule.  It is hard to go against the tide; but as believers we are called many times to do just that.

[Deborah-Leigh]

WELCOME to the Forum Marycee!

Agreement is key! Do we pass as agreeable with heresy or do we shine our light in the darkness?

Matt 10 : 33 But whoever denies and disowns Me before men, I also will deny and disown him before My Father Who is in heaven.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[rvhill]

Hi Michele,

I think what rvhill was saying, is that all will be saved in the end.
We should be thinking about how, as in the first resurrection or the lake of fire.

1Ti 2:3  For this is good and acceptable before God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4  who desires all men to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of truth.

it also important why we are saved. As in why is God righteous, and why are not, as an example.

What the churches teach is all you have to do is believe and you will be zipped into a heavenly paradise, when you die.
There is so much more to it. 
Everyone will give an account and will be judged, for everything they have done.

Rev 20:13  And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

So for those that think they believe in Christ is all they need, and don't have a thing to worry about, well the lake of fire is going to be a real shock.  Everybody is going to have to answer, for everything that they think they are getting away with now.  It is not going to be a good experience for them, that is what I think the 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' is all about.

Mat 13:49  So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous
Mat 13:50  and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Everybody will have to learn obedience, now judgment on the elect is easier, later in the lake of fire, it will not be a hard experience for the rest.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

Technically everyone goes in to the lake of fire. God is a fire and the believes become like God a fire. So, God and the believers are the like of fire. The process of becoming like God, a fire, is more painful for some then others.

Here a thing which will really bake your noodle.

Rev 14:11 like the rest of Revelations, but I don't think it mean what most people think it means. First who are the worshipers of the beast and who or what is the beast. Paul said that the beast sits in the temple of God, but Paul also say that the we are are temple of God. So how can any man sit in you? So you can't take it literally. Paul also say that everyone has a son of perdition(beast) in them. So if everyone is a worshiper of the beast then who is saved?


1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello rvhill

I believe you answer your own question here.

You ask : So if everyone is a worshiper of the beast then who is saved?

1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

Those who are God's temple are saved because God will destroy anyone who destroys God's temple.

Who destroys God's temple? Those who oppose and exalt themselves above God.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

As Paul writes...the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

Arcturus