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My heart is broken

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ericsteven:
Hi everyone,

My name is Eric, and while I am new to the forum, I actually have been studying the teachings of Ray for about 8 months now - maybe even 10. 

For some reason, I have not felt the urge to stop attending worship and classes at the congregation in which I grew up.  I usually sit quietly and listen to the "by the numbers" answers to all the questions the teacher or preacher asks.  I've repeatedly asked God to keep my mouth shut until the time appointed by Him, if ever, for me to open it speak of what I believe.  Everyone repeats the answers that they've been taught from birth; no one presents anything new.  But I've used it as kind of a trial run - so to speak - to see if I could confidently defend what I've learned against what they teach.  I try to remember Scriptures, I try to remember examples from Scripture to use just in case I do need to present a defense someday for what I believe.

Tonight was our weekly Wednesday night class.  As it so happens, we are studying I Timothy.  And - you guessed it - the discussion tonight centered around the meaning of I Timothy 2:3-4.

This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

I remained silent until someone for some reason brought up that we have free will.  At which point I asked, "Doesn't the foreknowledge of God negate the free will of man?"  They, of course, kept saying that we have a choice, obviously interchanging choice and will.  When I gave the example of Judas - that "Jesus knew from the beginning when he chose Judas to be an apostle that Judas would betray him.  Did that mean that Judas could have of his own free will chosen to not betray Jesus?"  Many said that Judas could have chosen not to betray Jesus and even went so far as to say that Jesus gave Judas every opportunity to choose not to betray him. 

We then got off onto the subject of evil.  They, of course, said that God did not intend for evil to be in the world.  And you should have heard the silence in the room when I said that I beilieved He did and in fact I believed He created it.  There was dead silence and even a smirk of unbelief from one of the senior members of the congregation.  One of the elders, who was sitting right beside me whispered, "You are wrong.  Show me a scripture." 

I wasn't able to at that moment, since discussion had resumed with another gentleman saying that the Scriptures are simple to understand and that we shouldn't be reading into them more than what is on the page.  Since he didn't say my name, I chose not to give an answer, but I'm pretty sure he was making a comment on my beliefs.

Needless to say, for the rest of the class, I remained silent.  Interestingly enough, my parents were also in this class, and not once did they speak up, nor after class did they come to me with what they were thinking.  I can't say that they were embarrased or upset with what I was saying, since I haven't spoken with them, but tonight I think I got an inkling of what it may be like when Jesus said that he came not to bring peace, but division, even in our own families.

Anyway, after the teacher wrapped up, I sat with Joe, the elder who had whispered for me to show him the scripture concerning evil, at which point I directed him to Isaiah 45:7 and Amos 3:3-7.  We both had the NIV which translates ra' as disaster, but I explained that the Hebrew word was actually ra' which meant evil or bad, and that the word for create in Isaiah was bara' which is the same Hebrew word used in Genesis for when God created the heavens and the earth.

At which point, he looked at me and said, "Hmm.  It says it right there in the Bible, doesn't it?  Looks like this is something I'm gonna have to study more."  We talked for a few more moments about all being saved and what the purpose of evil might be.

I guess the point for this post is just for me to express my feelings.  While I am encouraged by my discussion with Joe, my heart broke all through the rest of the class.  I think I know what Jesus may have felt when he wept before raising Lazarus from the grave.  Some people think that he cried because Lazarus dies and that is how we know had feelings just like us.  I choose to believe he was crying because he was troubled in his heart by their unbelief.  Why would he grieve for the loss of Lazarus when he knew from the beginning when Mary's sisters came to him that he would raise Lazarus from the grave?  But that's another discussion.

But even now, for some reason of which I know not  :) I do not feel the urge to leave just yet.  I believe I have "come out of her" spiritually, but as for physically attending class and worship, I believe God may have some purpose for me to remain. 

I do appreciate Ray and all of you who post on this site.  Even though I haven't been active in the forum, I still take much encouragement and knowledge away from what everybody says - even those who don't agree.

Thanks to all those who have had the patience to sit through this little expression of heartbreak and be my sounding board for a little while.

Gods blessings to you all,

Eric

gmik:
Eric, my heart goes out to you.  But I am impressed w/ how you handled yourself.  If you have read any of my posts I get flustered and forgetful when I try to talk about this.  I will be praying for you & Joe.  That was amazing.

While most of my family aren't even Christian so they don't really care, the two I care about the most don't "get" me.  That is my grown son & daughter. Every Sunday my son asks if I went to church (he lives in another state),  when I say no, he says why not and I say you know why not.l..we go thru this each week....He loves the idea of salvation for all but thinks I am going way off on others.

However, this Sunday after our usual church discussion, he said he and his wife are going to stop going to church bcz we don't  ??? Well, he doesn't want to see my point of view just argue against it.  That really hurts.   My daughter goes to church and after our initial discussion she does not talk about it AT ALL. That also hurts in a different way.  I said all that to say....

Family emotions are tough to deal with.  I am glad you are strong and are being used at your church. I stayed on for awhile too after learning about BT but eventually left.

Thanks for sharing and welcome to the forum.

God Bless,
gena

rrammfcitktturjsp:
Eric,

  It is good that you can use us as a sounding board.  I am proud of you of how you stood up for your beliefs.  I will be in prayer for you as well as the church.

  This was a great first post.  Look forward to getting to know you.  Welcome to the forum.

  Sincerely,


  Anne C. McGuire

DWIGHT:
Eric,

Brother, that was wonderful.  Thank God He gave you the grace to be silent and yet the boldness to speak.  I know that wasn't easy, and I'm sure its still going through your mind.  We love you and welcome you with open arms, and we pray that you will continue to share with us your journey to His Kingdom.

God be with you,

Dwight

Sorin:
Eric,

That took alot of guts to stand up for your beliefs like you did, but more often than not they will try to rip your head off when you tell them that God won't torture any 'guilty sinner' for all eternity. Even the pastor well then say: "Well if there's no 'hell' and everyone will be saved then why should we follow Christ, why should we not be like the world then, and just live it up?"

They will not believe the real reason people come to Christ, because that would mean it wasn't a 'free-will' decision "you mean God drags us to Christ? Why that's popostrous, I chose to come to Christ all on my own using my free will and my carnal mind [ which is enmity against God, hates God, yet chose Christ all on it's own?] and nothing caused me or inspired me to do it". They may not say it quite like that, but that's exactly what they mean, since they believe a person with a carnal mind that hates
God not only can, but has to come to Christ all on it's own, or make that decision all on it's own despite the fact that Jesus said that no man can come to Him except The Father which is in heaven Drags him.

So my point is, since they refuse to believe the scriptures, what good is it to cast thy pearls before them? ;)

Take care,
Sorin

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