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SAVED
Firefly:
Is, Was, and Will Be.
Maybe it's kind of like that. It's just a thought. :)
YellowStone:
This a great topic, thanks Arcturus :)
You ask: Are we saved yesterday today or tomorrow?
There have been some interesting responses, but I would like to ask a similar question.
Were we saved yesterday today or perhaps tomorrow?
Although, I still pay the burden of sin in this world, I will be pardoned, for Christ died for the sins of the world.
1Cr 15:3
* For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;Also, by his own words, he said that he:
Jhn 12:47
* And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
He clearly said that he came not to judge, but to save the world. So when was the world saved? Was it not at the time of his death on the cross? Was it not at this time my sins were pardoned?
Even though I feel God and see God all around me, I still live carnally in a carnal world. I have yet to receive the FULL benefit of Christs supreme sacrifice, yet his promise was made and his wordls hold true. That is enough for me. :)
I would like to hear your thoughts on this.
Much Love,
Darren
Deborah-Leigh:
--- Quote from: Kat on January 18, 2007, 06:58:19 PM ---Hi Arcturus,
Good topic.
Wouldn't saved and born again be about the same idea.
As we are only begotten now, we are sealed with the earnest of His Spirit now.
--- End quote ---
Yes Kat I too see that Born again is saved and received into the Kingdom of God. Begotten is sealed with the earnest of His Spirit. This distinction separates the candy coated heresy that anyone is born yet! No one is BORN yet but some are begotten from above! 8)
Ray also affirms that salvation is an ongoing process.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Darren
Here are some of my thoughts in blue font. You ask,
Were we saved yesterday today or perhaps tomorrow?
Not yesterday not today but perhaps tomorrow yes.
Although, I still pay the burden of sin in this world, I will be pardoned, for Christ died for the sins of the world.
We do not pay the burden of sin but I believe I know what you are pointing to. We are yet subject to trial and suffering having not yet received the perfect fullness of the standard measure of Christ. Eph 4 : 13 Some may think they have, profess and set out to prove they have .. :)..but as for me I know.. :-\.. that I am still subject to failure, weakness and liability to the assaults of temptation. I am not yet SAVED or fully conformed into the image of Christ who ALONE is my sin offering. Only He was sinless, spotless and the Lamb of God and He is not back yet because He has gone to prepare a place. In the meantime, while He has not yet returned, I hope I am going to be ready and found worthy to stand unashamed before Him when He gets back.
So yes the Scriptures do not lie or contradict as you point out:
1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Also, by his own words, he said that he:
Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
That is why He CAME. Why does He RETURN though? He came not to judge but to be a sin offering. He returns for an entirely different assignment.
He clearly said that he came not to judge, but to save the world. So when was the world saved?
The world wasn’t saved…… It WILL BE SAVED…. future tense.
Was it not at the time of his death on the cross?
No.
Col 2 : 15 God disarmed the principalities and powers that were ranged against us and made a bold display and public example of them, in triumphing over them in HIM and in it THE CROSS.
Where…WHERE… were the principalities and powers ranged against US made a public display and triumphed over? In HIM and in HIS cross. Are we told to carry our cross? Yes. Are we triumphant over and have any of us made a bold display of the principalities and powers ranged against any of us? No. WHERE? Oh sorry…I forgot Benny Hinn!…and all the other miracle working tithe collecting heresy preaching evangelists of Babylon. Yet there are some very successful foolish preachers who purchase Lear Jets to tropical and exotic and wealthy economies of the world who draw the crowds that turn away from the faith to give attention to deluding and seducing sprits and doctrines that demons teach through hypocrites pretentious liars whose consciences are seared as with a hot iron.
Many will tithe pay and buy into bondage in lust of the mind and eyes to entertaining glitzy glamorous displays in global stage performances in shameless claims to Gods power all done in the comfort of limousine style living and prosperity gratification of their senses. Without any hair on their heads being harmed they make a show of claimed power they assume to control at their whim and fancy making their whim and fancy equivalent to the leading of the Spirit of Christ. They neither "believe" the scriptures nor the power of God. They have not been resurrected but have been given up to the lusts of their own hearts and minds. Their spiritual supernatural entourage are the miracle-working demons.
2 Tim 2 : 17 their teaching WILL eat its way like cancer or spread like gangrene. (THIS TEACHING WILL HAPPEN, DID HAPPEN, IS HAPPENING AND WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN UNTIL JESUS COMES AGAIN) So it is with Hymenaeus and Philetus 18 who have missed the mark and swerved from the truth by arguing that the resurrection has already taken place. They are undermining the faith of some.
Was it not at this time my sins were pardoned?
What does pardoned mean to you? What does sin mean? What do the scriptures say?
1 John 2 : 16 For all that is in the world ( We are all yet IN the world yet some are less OF the world than others) the lust of the eyes, greedy longings of the mind and the pride of life, assurance in one’s own resources or in the stability of earthy things-these do not come from the Father but are from the world itself.
Christ comes again to bring fullness of pardon of which some have already received a deposit that Christ will bring to full salvation only once He returns again.
If I differentiate between the words pardon and resurrection then pardon is for those who believe and are chosen and resurrection is for everyone the fulfilment of pardon for some and the correction of wickedness for others.
Judgment and repentance, Gods Grace and His Mercy, are the means and way towards the fulfilment of pardon that is yet future. Judgment and repentance through unmeritied favor is Gods process of making elect vessels for Christ’s honour. I have to remain patient in the belief that the world and I are not yet saved and Gods work and process of bringing us all into the perfection of the image of Christ is not yet accomplished. Has the work started? Yes. Eventually ALL creation will be turned to God's Son who will then deliever all creation including Himself to God but right now Jesus Christ is not yet globally or Nationally back yet. He is coming. He will return. The Scriptures will be fulfilled.
Were my sins yesterday today and tomorrow, pardoned at the cross of Christ and therefore am I saved, NO. Jesus saved no one, not even Himself. In fact we are told not to save ourselves.
Turn on TBN and watch how many profess to be ruling now with Christ over sickness and disease and even death itself. I prefer to believe for the return of Christ rather than self professed holier than thou so called anointed mediators. For me, Christ JESUS is and will ever be the one true Mediator between me and God my Father. This fact is not dependent upon whether or not I know it, believe it or even agree with it. It is what it is. There is no other way. This is not to erase from authenticity that Christ gives us people to help us and guide us and teach us. He does. These are gifts to us who have freely received and freely give.
My thoughts about where Christ says He did not come to judge for me means that at His first appearance, He did not come to judge but He came to carry the burden of sin as a sin offering. Had judgment come before the sin offering, no one would be saved. Prophesied through Isaiah 53 is the first appearance of Christ upon the earth. The second appearance is to resurrection, Rev 22 : 12 Behold, I am coming soon, and I shall bring My wages and rewards with Me, to REPAY AND RENDER TO EACH ONE JUST WHAT HIS OWN ACTIONS AND HIS OWN WORK MERIT. At His second coming He will come to complete HIS work NOT OUR WORK BUT HIS WORK that is now going on in those He is working in to bring them to full salvation. His second coming will not be a repeat performance of carrying or dealing with sin all over again. Heb 9 : 28 Jesus Christ will not go to Calvary again. Those in whom sin is not fully purged, will be facing the Lake of Fire second death and those in whom sin is dead and whose flesh is subdued and crucified with Christ, will be brought to the first resurrection of the faithful called and chosen vessels of honour for Christ.
No one is saved in this life. For me the fulfilment of pardon is equal to the fulfilment of salvation. No one has yet arrived and perhaps like you, I do not have any hang ups about that either. I am running my race. Christ Jesus has not yet returned to the Earth. I am clear on that point however smudged under claims that His presence in Spirit is the same as His return to the earth. It is not. As Kat points out. Born again is not the same as begotten from above. As far as I know, Jesus is not anywhere except at the right hand of our Father. He is coming from there to the earth…..He will come again and He will be bringing His reward with Him. 1 Cor 6 : 14 And God both raised the Lord to life and WILL (Future tense not present or past ) also raise us up by His power.
Where is the person that claims that they have already been raised up by the power of God? Who has sat down with Moses and Jacob or any of the Patriarchs? Yet there are many in Mystery Babylon who are yet in the dark under a blanket cover-up of false teaching and seductive deceptive heretical spiritual idolatry that under deeper scrutiny point to the belief that some, self appointed anointed rule in the resurrection of Christ in present day terms. The foolishness of Preaching is not a limitation on Christ who visits the Synagogues to drag out who He chooses. Fallacious self-serving doctrinal errors as Paul says is a cancer and gangrene that is undermining the faith of some that only Christ can correct, purge and make whole again once He returns. The process has begun. It was prophesied in the OT it began in the NT. Jesus will not have to die again or deal with sin but rule He surely will when He comes again and judgment He will certainly administer together with His elect upon the yet imperfect souls not yet completed in His image and likeness.
Even though I feel God and see God all around me, I still live carnally in a carnal world. I have yet to receive the FULL benefit of Christs supreme sacrifice, yet his promise was made and his wordls hold true. That is enough for me.
Keep on exercising your faith. It is the real talent in the aridity, sham and drudgery of disenchanting irreverent godless vain and empty subtleties that are falsely called knowledge and spiritual illumination.
I would like to hear your thoughts on this.
Those are my thoughts.
Much Love,
Peace to you
Arcturus. :)
rocky:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on January 19, 2007, 03:27:35 PM ---[He will certainly administer together with His elect upon the yet imperfect souls not yet completed in His image and likeness.[/color]
Arcturus.[/color] :)
--- End quote ---
Since this judgment is on the imperfect souls, and souls only exist in the flesh (dust plus spirit), do you see those in LOF being flesh beings???
Will they be resurrected similar to Lazarus, resurrected back into a flesh being??
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