> General Discussions
Joy of the Angels/Messengers
Kat:
Hi Joey,
I understand what you are saying, that has always been what I thought too.
But the parable of the workers in the vineyard have this same thing in it.
Mat 20:10 Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius.
v.11 And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house,
v.12 saying, 'These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.'
v.13 But he replied to one of them, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?
We know that the workers in the vineyard are the elect, in verse 08 they had already received their wages, and in verse 11, the workers grumbled. This sounds a lot like the prodical son that became angry.
I'm not saying I'm right about this, I just noticed that this same type of reaction, to the ones coming in later is repeated in this other parable.
So I was just wondering about this.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
PKnowler:
Hi Joe,
I want to give you my thoughts in response to your question. I believe there is joy in heaven over one sinner who repents because they were lost but now they're found! They were dead but now they are alive! Of course we all know that but I think that is what brings the angels joy. I don't think it is a further work that this scripture is talking about. For we know that He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it!
~Paula
hillsbororiver:
Hi Kat,
I am understanding this a bit different but I make no claim as to having the final word or ultimate understanding. This is what I am seeing, this parable (Prodigal Son) is actually addressing the Jews (first = older son) then Gentiles (second = younger son) but also as the "men of old" Prophets being raised to see those who came after them (the Elect) as being rewarded first into the Kingdom.
The Jews believe they have not strayed by following Mosaic Law under the First Covenant, the older son never strayed away from the (physical) duties he was given by his father but did he display or feel the (spiritual) love his father had for his younger brother, did the older brother truly appreciate all he was born into or did he feel as if he was somehow deserving of it? On the other hand the younger brother decided to go off on his own and through his journey of alienation and despair rediscovered how blessed he had been, then he repented for leaving "his first love," (his father) and the loving provisions his father had provided. When the younger son returned home he had a sense of humble appreciation that the older son could not fathom, who at this point loved (spiritual) his father more, the elder or the younger son? Who at this point would have more devotion?
When the Prophets are raised from the grave and discover the Kingdom is now populated by "only those who came after" them, what might be their reaction? Remember being under the Old Covenant they are raised still with a carnal nature. At Judgement they may be making the same statement as the the workers in the vineyard who worked from sunrise only to see the later workers not only paid the same but PAID FIRST! Might this be the beginning of the Elect having a hand in bringing the Prophets into the Kingdom? Where God is showing them they have more yet to understand, just as the older son now has less understanding and appreciation (than his younger brother) of the depth of his father's love, and the blessings he has provided?
Look at the preceding verses to what you posted;
Matthew 20
1For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
2And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
5Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
6And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
7They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
9And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
I would bet the later workers did not murmur one syllable, they had a great appreciation for what they received, the sunrise to sunset workers got what they were promised (Old Covenant) but it was those who came later who got a better (New Covenant) promise.
Hebrews 8
5Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
This has kind of veered off topic but you bring up an extremely interesting point which begs more study, I want to respond to some of the other posts here but time is not my friend at the moment.
Thanks to all who responded I will be getting back to this as soon as I can.
His Peace and Wisdom to you all,
Joe
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: YellowStone on January 23, 2007, 08:14:37 PM ---
However; could or would anyone ever suggest that Angels and Messengers will not be rejoicing like never before when pure cleansed people free from the vices, ailments and pride that plague us today, begin walking out of the Lake of Fire.
If that is not cause for celebration then nothing is :)
Great post from a loved brother, Joe.
Love to you,
Darren
--- End quote ---
Hi Darren,
You are so right, can you just imagine the joy of seeing our loved ones (as well as all humanity) emerging perfect and immortal? What is even more incredible is that He will be providing unimaginable joy as well!
Isa 64:4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
His Love and Peace to you Brother,
Joe
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Joey Porter on January 23, 2007, 10:42:31 PM ---I think these are probably a couple verses which we can apply a "living and active" principal to. That is, to us in this age now - they apply to showing the contrast between the called and chosen.
The called are those who don't think they need to repent - because they haven't ''cleaned the inside of their dish,'' or ''removed the plank from their eye." I think it also falls in line with what He said about the healthy not needing a doctor - but the sick do. That would be - those who realize they're sick. It also shows the contrasting attitudes of the pharisee and the tax collector. God (and the angels) are more pleased with a man who says "Have mercy on me a sinner" than the man who says "I am healthy and don't need a doctor.''
Also, remember the part of the sheep parable in which Jesus leaves the 99 sheep on the hills (perhaps the hills represent their "high" and "lofty" places) to seek out and save the one who is astray.
Of course, in the future age, there will be rejoicing every time someone "repents their way out of" the lake of fire - however that is precisely and specifically going to be accomplished, I am not enlightened yet. But I believe the ''chosen'' will be key vessels in the process.
--- End quote ---
Joey,
Thank you for another (valid) perspective of these verses, it continually amazes me the depths of the scriptures and how so many truths can be applied or are contained within them.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
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