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Prayer and Fasting
fe32k:
Is fasting a something we should do? As per Ray's teachings fasting cannot have any spiritual benefits because it is something we do in the flesh. I got this e-mail response from him regarding the matter but still left me we wanting more...
"Dear Roy:
... I never said you fasted for two years in vain, and I don't know that you should feel that way either. I have gone many many times from 3 or 4 am till 3 or 4 pm studying God's word and have never thought for a moment (until you write me) that I was actually fasting, skipping meals, to study God's word. I know that many of the leading heretics in today's religious community, fast and pray, but little is accomplished by them.
I have never criticized anyone for fasting, being baptized, partaking of communion, foot washings, keeping of holy days, circumcision, anointed cloths, etc., etc. But I also know that all of these things have a spiritual meaning to them. People become very self-righteous about keeping the seventh day Sabbath, and in so doing, they BREAK the spirit of what the sabbath represents--entered into GOD'S REST, that is not doing our works, but resting from our works and letting God perform His works in us (Eph. 2:8-10). Christ was circumcised, baptized, fasted, partook of the last supper, washed the disciples' feet, etc. Do you still, literallly, wash the feet of others? Why not? I mean Jesus did say, "...you ALSO OUGHT to wash one another's feet." Do you? I do, but I don't use literal water and a bason because I KNOW the spiritual application of being a servant to others even when it means getting down and dirty. Yet I have known hundreds from a p! revious church affiliation who had a "foot washing" ceremony annually along with the Passover service, and most of those leading men who literally washed others feet would never dream to actually doing anything in real life that was not pleasant in helping a lower level sheep.
And so this is how I see all of the physical rituals including fasting. There was nothing more important to Israel than circumcision, and yet Paul turns around and tells us "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye BE CIRCUMCISED , Christ shall profit you NOTHING" (Gal. 5:2). I realize that most people are not interested in the spiritual, and that the physical is much easier to do, because it can be SEEN. It is a lot harder to "live by faith" not seeing the things that we believe to be true. I will not say anything against physical fasting. If that is what people feel they need to do, then possibly they should do it. If people FORGET that Jesus is their Saviour or that His blood was shed for them, or that we are to EAT HIS BODY, except they eat a little piece of bread and a sip of wine every so often, then so be it. The longest I ever went without food and water was four days and for four days all I thought about was food and water, but I made myse! lf beli eve that I was DOING IT FOR THE LORD. I guess I didn't know how to do it right or something. Or maybe I'm just more honest than most people. I believe Jesus was preparing us for bigger things when He taught: "It is the SPIRIT that quickens; the flesh profits NOTHING: the words that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT, and they are life" (John 6:63).
No, I don't have a specific verse that says, "But he is a Jew, which is one INWARDLY, and fasting and baptism [circumcision] is that of the heart, in the SPIRIT[Isa. 58 & Rom. 6:4]], and not of the letter [actually not eating of food and getting wet in water]; whose praise is not of men, but of God" (Rom. 2:29), but I believe it is the same.
God be with you,
Ray
This didn't leave me fully convinced. Because the following seem to show that fasting should be an essential part of the christian walk:
Matthew 4:2 "And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward hungry."
Matthew 9:15 "...then shall they fast."
Matthew 17:21 "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."
Acts 10:30 "And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing" (Note how this happens after fasting.)
Acts 13:2 "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them."
Act 10:10 "And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance" (Note that again a vision is given after a moment of fasting)
And so on and so forth. It is evident that fasting was a large part of Paul's ministry as well as Peter. I know that no one would tell me not to fast, but why isn't it encouraged by this ministry?
God be with you all,
Roy
gmik:
Do it if you feel led to.
Fasting for health reasons are good. For clarity of mind too. I think if you re read what you just posted by Ray it makes sense to keep it spiritual. What good is it if you are so hungry that you cannot actually accomplish the fast. (like for a healing or something)
Isaiah says "is this not the fast I chose for you..." then he lists helping the poor etc.
Paul also said he was all things to all people, so he may have fasted to not harm his new Jewish brothers.
Better minds than mine will probably post to help you.
gena :)
brothertoall:
In my fasting days the only thing I thought about was well I only have to go a few more hours and then I can eat! What good did that do me or anyone else.
God is in control of all things and if He puts this in your heart to do so then by all means you should do the will of God.
Most usually fast to get there prayers answered or for someone else. I have come to find out that:
James 2:14-18
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
bobby
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: brothertoall on January 25, 2007, 09:30:04 AM ---
In my fasting days the only thing I thought about was well I only have to go a few more hours and then I can eat! What good did that do me or anyone else.
bobby
--- End quote ---
;) ;D :-\
Bobby, I have fasted before when I was with the SDA's and my reaction (especially after a 3 day water only fast) was EXACTLY like yours, "oh man I can't wait to wolf down 6 pounds of food, any food, get out of the way Fido, those Gainesburgers are looking mighty good right now!
Joe
Craig:
As Gena said, if you feel led to fast then by all means fast.
But if you are like Joe and in the midst of the fast you start thinking about food, then I would quit right there.
Do you suppose when Jesus fasted he was distracted by the thought of food?
When our "physical" carnal being tries to do the things of the spirit we will always fail, but if you are led by the spirit to do something and are in agreement with the spirit and Christ is doing, whatever the thing is, in you, then you will not fail.
Blessings
Craig
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