babylon,from ray

[eutychus]

thanks ray,

babylon is the world system, education, religion and ecconomic.

education: lies with in them, you know what they are! evolution, etc.
religoun: eternal tormant and all the rest of false doctrines every religion has them, Christ in you is our religion.

economic: get rich brings happiness,,etc.

everyone of these mixes truth with lies.

((((chosen out of the world))))) not the "church'

overcome the world not overcome the church.

if Christ is in you!!! he overcame it Wink

Jhn 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

1Jo 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world

Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have (((((((chosen you out of the world)))))), therefore the world hateth you.

there is plenty more Wink
peace
chuckt


Dear Chuck:

Wrong. The "world" IS the Church, first and foremost. Secondarily it is the global world of nations and politics.

When Jesus said that He overcame "the world," certainly both aspects are covered (John16:33). A few verses later when Jesus said: "While I was with them in the WORLD, I kept them in Your Name..." (John 17:12), He is speaking of the religion of the Jews--the church. Jesus was not with the disciples in China or Russia, but in Judea which was religious to the core. EVERYONE was religious. ALL Jews of Judea were followers of Moses in some form or fashion.

"They are not of the WORLD [the religion of their own people in their own country Judea], even as I was not of the world...As You have sent Me into the world [not the nations, not the politics of Rome, etc.], EVEN SO [in the very same way] I also sent them into the world [the original apostles did not take the gospel to the Gentiles of the world]" (Verse 16 & 18).

Verse 24: "...for You loved Me before the foundation of the world [here again is the broader sense of the whole "kosmos" which involved the entire social order of mankind.

So, Yes, the word world in Scripture has the specific meaning of the Church or the Religion of the day.

God be with you,

Ray

[eutychus]

by pm from a blessed freind
written to me.






"Now do you not feel just sooooo stupid, take that to your group and choke on it.


Man you made my day...i never laughed so hard.

please where do i make donations to your contribution for your comedy lesson.

BRAVO....."""""

[eutychus]

to my freind.

no i dont feel stupid, i feel blessed and loved.

peace
chuckt

[Steve Crook]

Everything Ray mentioned in this email is all throughout Mike's audios, writings, and commentaries. Ray also writes about the world being the church. Same goes with "earth" and many similar words. All is spiritual and evry verse and line of scripture of a scriptual meaning....I'm sure maybe several each, lol.

[eutychus]

Everything Ray mentioned in this email is all throughout Mike's audios, writings, and commentaries. Ray also writes about the world being the church. Same goes with "earth" and many similar words. All is spiritual and evry verse and line of scripture of a scriptual meaning....I'm sure maybe several each, lol.

yes steve,

i went and reread some of ray and mikes stuff.

i agree with almost all of it, but i have alot  learn, for me i hate the world
and all that the "world" has to offer.

as paul said, i am running the race, Christ is my only hope
and i pray we all grow in HIS LOVE and GRACE

peace
chuckt

[hillsbororiver]

Everything Ray mentioned in this email is all throughout Mike's audios, writings, and commentaries. Ray also writes about the world being the church. Same goes with "earth" and many similar words. All is spiritual and evry verse and line of scripture of a scriptual meaning....I'm sure maybe several each, lol.

I am glad that Ray cleared this up, as Mike's paper that I posted to the thread got little response or comment, I thought Mike had it very clear and concise.

Sometimes (I have been guilty as well) I think we get so wrapped up in our "debates" we don't see the forest because the trees keep getting in the way.

We as truth seekers should be temperate in all things and give "benefit of the doubt" to those we have differences with, being empathetic to others  
wherever they are in their walk. That doesn't mean heresy goes unchallenged but it does mean we should treat others with kindness and patience and not repay "evil with evil," isn't that what we have left behind us?


Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful

Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Col 3:17 And whatsoever, ye do in word or deed, do all in the name the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

I appreciate any and all comments on this. We won't allow "preachers" to set up a soapbox here but when some degenerate into name calling and accusations we do not have to follow them there.

Joe

[eutychus]

Ray,
i know you are a busy man, but i wanted to thank you for your reply.
i have been going back and rereading.

this is the scripture that stumps me.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.


1Ti 3:15

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church [the people] of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth


God bless you
inCHRIST
chuckt

[Sonia]

I'm also confused on this--seems like this is a battle over semantics--as Chrissie expressed in one of her posts. I'm interested to see Ray's response.

Seems like Chuck is using true "church" as referring to the chosen and faithful of God--and I don't think that's outside of a scriptural use of the word.

Sonia

[Sonia]

This is a little off point here, but reading this topic brought to mind the story in Judges 7--Gideon against the Midianites. First the Lord told him to send home the fearful--22,000 went home, leaving him with 10,000. Then the test at the water: the Lord said to keep those who lapped from their hands, instead of kneeling to drink. Then there were only 300 left--the chosen of the Lord, and with those the Midianites were defeated though they were counted "without number."

Sonia

[chrissiela]

I'm also confused on this--seems like this is a battle over semantics--as Chrissie expressed in one of her posts. I'm interested to see Ray's response.

Seems like Chuck is using true "church" as referring to the chosen and faithful of God--and I don't think that's outside of a scriptural use of the word.

Sonia

Yes, Sonia. Thank you!

That is exactly what I was seeing... a 'mixing' of A church and THE church. This is the 'confusion', as I see it.



There IS a difference between ‘a’ church (Babylon, as taught by BT) and ‘THE’ Church.  



Many/most (though not all) of the ‘called’ are in a church, but the ‘chosen’ ARE THE Church.




There is 'a' PHYSICAL church and there is 'THE' SPIRITUAL Church.



Paul was “called out of� a PHYSICAL church (of the Jews…. The SYNAGOGUES) into THE SPIRITUAL CHURCH (or body) of Christ…




And coming out of A church is no indication, in an of itself, that one had come out of Babylon and come into THE Church.

Chuck sent an email to Ray and got a reply already. I have sent one to Mike, but have not yet received a reply. I am not sure if I will get one, since Ray did answer and I am sure that Mike was cc'd on the reply. But if I do get an answer to my post (Which I sent him) I will also post whatever the reply is.

Blessings
Chrissie

[chrissiela]

This is a little off point here, but reading this topic brought to mind the story in Judges 7--Gideon against the Midianites. First the Lord told him to send home the fearful--22,000 went home, leaving him with 10,000. Then the test at the water: the Lord said to keep those who lapped from their hands, instead of kneeling to drink. Then there were only 300 left--the chosen of the Lord, and with those the Midianites were defeated though they were counted "without number."

Sonia

Wow!! :shock: So cool!! I hadn't ever noticed that before.

[Sharon]

Scripture defines the 'Church' as the elect, chosen, faithful, firstfruits, body of Christ, the Wife of the Lamb etc.  

But sometimes 'we' define 'Church' as the 'world of religion' or the 'religion of the day'  :roll:

Peace
Sharon

[hillsbororiver]

Scripture defines the 'Church' as the elect, chosen, faithful, firstfruits, body of Christ, the Wife of the Lamb etc.  

But sometimes 'we' define 'Church' as the 'world of religion' or the 'religion of the day'  :roll:

Peace
Sharon

The true "church" are the body of Christ, the elect. So does that mean the "synagogue of satan" only applies to Judaism?

Scripture tells us there are Prophets and false Prophets, are all Prophets equal then?

evil son, Rightous Son, no difference?

Joe

[davey C.]

Few will be in that blessed and holy resurrection,Gideon a perfect example written for our admonition upon whom the end of the ages are come.Tho you give your body to be burned and have all knowledge and understanding and have not love you are but a banging cymbal,a gong !!!!Useless!!!Our Father is doing the choosing here and in this I have hope peace and joy.My brethren let not many of you be teachers,knowing that we shall receive the greater jugdement.It doesnt say the church or even the sea gets the greater judgement.And they shall not teach everyman his neighbor,and every man his brother,sayin,know the Lord:for all shall know me,from the least to the greatest.peace and Love davey c

[hillsbororiver]

Great post Davey,

I think we all aspire to be in the 1st resurrection to be one of the "elect" the "chosen" the "body" the true "church," although it is He who does the choosing not us.

My earlier point was that the physical (carnal) and the spiritual aspects of His plan run all through His Word. We have physical Israel and spiritual Israel, Old Covenant, New Covenant, spirtual law, mosaic law, we have the carnal (worldly) church and the body of Christ which is the spiritual church.

I think as Chrissie stated earlier that semantics were the problem and I believe rigidity in definition also was a problem.

This word, as so many biblical words have the ability to be used to describe the carnal and the spiritual.

Joe

[chrissiela]

Mike's excellent reply can be found HERE in the email section