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Author Topic: Reveling in infidelities  (Read 6091 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jennie

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2007, 12:48:43 PM »

Longhorn , you are so funny! Agreeing to disagree is sometimes a good thing. Anne , you hang in there....I felt no offense and Bobby , my dear friend, you continually amaze me with your knowledge and study. This is a good place. We are brothers and sisters here. I love my brother to pieces but sometimes I just wanted to pop him one "up side " the head. Then I got in trouble with my Mama! That didn't change the love I have for my brother. sometimes I still want to "pop him up side the head" but there is nothing I wouldn't do for him. Likewise for all of ya'll. Sometimes we disagree but for me, that doesn't change the love. Much love to all, Jennie
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2007, 01:02:56 PM »

 Hello Anne & Bobby,

The ceremony, the ring and all that is not important at all it is the public proclaimation and record of this proclaimation in regard to the intent for a man and a woman to love and cherish each other for the rest of their natural lives. The state requires a marriage certificate in the case of dividing property or inheritence to the children, of course a will can cover these things, social security benefits and other things are affected by marriage and even the length of the marriage.

Jesus speaking to the woman at the well differentiated between having a husband (5 previously) and living with a man. I noticed no reponse from any defenders of "living together."

1 Corinthians 7 appears to be clear on marriage being a bit more than a man and a woman living together and that relations before marriage is sinful, look I have been guilty of this as well, I am not setting myself up as better or holier than thou.

I admit I am a little disapointed that some of us gave advice that is not conducive to the health and well being of the families this might affect, remember as Paul stated that marriage is an earthly thing, well empirical (earthly) evidence is that familes with married spouses are more prosperous, healthier and less likely prone to violence or break up. Of course there are exceptions but the evidence is overwhelming, if anyone wants links to government, private or University studies that show the stats let me know privately and I will be happy to provide them.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe  
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rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2007, 01:10:05 PM »

To All,

  Since reading these topics and threads I have done some soul searching and have a confession to make to you all.

  I have been getting rather emotionally involved in some of these threads and topics, and feel that maybe my emotion may have been blinding me.  For this I am sorry.

  Joe -
"The ceremony, the ring and all that is not important at all it is the public proclaimation and record of this proclaimation in regard to the intent for a man and a woman to love and cherish each other for the rest of their natural lives."
[/color]

  As I was reading this part of your post a Scripture came up to me and again I am sorry I cannot find where it is in the bible, but it says that God looks at the heart and not at outward appearances. 

  Again, I needed to refocu on the important stuff, and that is the inward stuff, the spiritual stuff, and not the legalistc traditions or stuff of man.

To the Forum,

   I have fallen short of the pervious paraphrased Scripture.  I am been looking at the outward appearances and got caught up in the paper and the ring ect.  I was not looking at the spiritual side or principle of the matter.  For this I am sorry.  Hopefully I will not have to apologize for a long time.   ;D  Writing I am sorry sure is hard to do for me.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2007, 03:04:33 PM »



Jesus speaking to the woman at the well differentiated between having a husband (5 previously) and living with a man. I noticed no reponse from any defenders of "living together." (John 4:16-18)

1 Corinthians 7 appears to be clear on marriage being a bit more than a man and a woman living together and that relations before marriage is sinful, look I have been guilty of this as well, I am not setting myself up as better or holier than thou.



No comments?




Gen 34:8  And Hamor communed with them, saying, The soul of my son Shechem longeth for your daughter: I pray you give her him to wife.

Who was the first to give His daughter to be a man's wife?

Gen 3:12  And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree and I did eat.

Gave to Adam for what purpose?

Gen 3:20  And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.



Jesus did not seem to discount marriage or even the ceremony, ritual or feast when He walked the earth.


John 2 (King James Version)


 1And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

 2And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

 3And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

 4Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

 5His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

 6And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

 7Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.

 8And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

 9When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

 10And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

 11This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.


 His Peace and Wisdom to you,

 Joe
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2007, 03:26:07 PM »

When you are invited by anyone to a MARRIAGE FEAST, do not recline on the chief seat in the place of honor, lest a more distinguished person than you has been invited. Luke 14 : 8 

And be like men who are waiting for their master to return home from the MARRIAGE FEAST, so that when he returns from the WEDDING and comes and knocks, they may open to him immediately. Luke 12 : 36

And those servants went out on the crossroads and got together as many as they found, both bad and good, so the room in which the  WEDDING FEAST WAS HELD was filled with guests. But when the king came in to view the guests, he looked intently at a man there who had on NO WEDDING GARMENT. And he said, Friend, how did you come in here without putting on the appropriate WEDDING GARMENT? Matt 22 : 10,11,12

On the third day there was a WEDDING at Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2. Jesus also was invited with His disciples to THE WEDDING.John 2 : 1,2

Which garment do we wear, the wedding garment or the living together one.

There is going to be a banquet and Christ will be married to His Bride. Which party will we be arriving with.... Oprah and Stedman or the failthfull of Christ?

Peace to you

Arcturus. :)

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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2007, 11:35:03 PM »

Just to comment Joe on the scripture, I read the account in John 4-16 and other than stating that she had 5 husbands Jesus didn't say anything else about it.  She went back and told people about Him,  they came to see Jesus and then He left.  He didn't do anything else w/ her.  Didn't even say Go and sin no more. Then Jesus left there.  Did she go back to the man she was living with?  Was he one of the people that came to see Jesus? Not much detail about those kinds of things.
What I find in this passage as sad is that the woman told the villagers come see a Man who told me ALL that I ever did.   just summed up her life, having5 husbands.  nothing else.  I see pathos in that, I don't know why.

I am not commenting on the rest of these threads.

gena :)
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Kirk

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2007, 11:56:32 PM »

Are you still looking for a Biblical pattern for marriage or is that not the goal?
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DWIGHT

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2007, 12:54:55 AM »

Hi Kirk,

I just noticed that was your first post!  Welcome in His name; we're happy to have you here and yes anything biblical that you have, please share it with us.

In Him,

Dwight
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Joey Porter

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2007, 01:17:01 AM »

This is not an issue that I've spent a whole lot of time studying, but I've gotten a little restless in my spirit with some of what's been going on so I figured I'd chime in.

As I said, I don't have a lot of experience at seeking out the truth on this, and I don't have a set opinion either way.  But one thing I want to remind everyone of:  

I've heard Ray say a few times that "the bible doesn't always mean what it says, but it always means what it means."  I've seen people say that we must back up our beliefs on this issue with scripture.  That certainly is true, but it's never really as simple as that. We should always strive to seek out the spirit of the scripture, as opposed to merely just the printed letter.  After all, every major Christian denomination in the world backs up their doctrines with scripture.  So just because the scriptures speak of marriage feasts and so forth doesn't necessarily mean that the scriptures endorse an actual  wedding ceremony, with an exchange of vows, conducted by a "minister'' or "priest.''

Once again, I'm not arguing for or against either side of this "debate," but I do want to say that the answer to this may not be as "cut and dry" as it may seem.

First I want to bring up the issue of endorsing a wedding ceremony as conducted by someone who claims authority in the religious church system.  I assume that all of us who are posting here, do so because we've come to see many great errors in the Christian religious system, and we either have "come out of her" or are in the process of coming out.  So would it be pleasing to God for us go "back into her" for the sole purpose of being proclaimed by that person whom we know is in error, to be proclaimed "husband and wife?"  I don't have an answer for that, but it is something that we should ponder before advocating it.  

Beyond that, I know that often times the one who is conducting the ceremony will bring it to a climax by saying something similar to "By the power vested in me, I now pronounce you man and wife."  

But, what power?  Vested in him by whom?  Does he claim that God has given him the power to pronounce a couple as husband and wife?  Certainly there is no scriptural support for such a statement.  Should we rely on the proclamation of someone whom we know is a teacher of false doctrine to officially proclaim a man and a woman being one flesh?  And should we assume that if it is not done in this way, then the couple is not officially married?  Again, I don't think there will be any scripture supporting that.

I just wonder greatly about this, because we know that Jesus said that the flesh profits nothing, but the Spirit gives life.  We know that adultery is committed in the heart, and we know that true circumcision is of the heart.  I am trying to reconcile all of this in my mind with the idea of a traditional ceremony with a physical ring and tangible paperwork, etc.

2 Corinthians 3
3You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.


Part of me says that it would be right and obedient to go through the proper, customary steps as we do in this country, in order to make a marriage official.  

But then another part of me says that if we really do believe that the heart is what counts and the flesh profits nothing, then all of that stuff should not matter in the least, and that we should fully come out of that way of thinking.

We know that the Christian church wedding ceremony honors the Lord with the lips, but does that mean that the heart would also be automatically close to Him, having the ceremony conducted by a self proclaimed "priest" or "reverend?"  Would it be like mocking God or taking His name in vein to have a marriage "made official" at the "authority" of one who does not teach God's truths?  

I don't know.  I would certainly not advocate pre-marital (I mean offical marriage) sex to anyone without earnestly searching the will of God.  However, I might be inclined to say the same for the issue of going through a religious wedding ceremony too.  

I just hope everyone keeps in mind that we need to search out the spiritual meaning of the scriptures for all major issues such as these.   And we also need to keep in mind Paul's warning:

Galatians 5
15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.


I'm sure that all of the Christian denominations that exist today arose from groups of believers who had previously been of one mind.    I hope it doesn't happen here.

Let us all pray that none of us fall into the trap of hastily reading the scriptures with our carnal minds, as the Christian world does.






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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2007, 01:42:55 AM »


Hi Joey,

Quote
I am trying to reconcile all of this in my mind with the idea of a traditional ceremony with a physical ring and tangible paperwork, etc.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that someone should go through a church wedding.
There were alternatives brought up, but that is not something that needs to be decided here.

Quote
We should always strive to seek out the spirit of the scripture, as opposed to merely just the printed letter.

I think that is the whole objective of those of us here  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Joey Porter

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2007, 02:00:26 AM »


Hi Joey,

Quote
I am trying to reconcile all of this in my mind with the idea of a traditional ceremony with a physical ring and tangible paperwork, etc.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that someone should go through a church wedding.
There were alternatives brought up, but that is not something that needs to be decided here.

Quote
We should always strive to seek out the spirit of the scripture, as opposed to merely just the printed letter.

I think that is the whole objective of those of us here  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat



I understand about the alternatives and so forth.  But I guess the main question to ponder is - what is the definition of true marriage, and who or what defines it? Is it God plus the hearts of the two alone that define it, or is it both of those things combined with the culture of the time?

I just can't bring myself to autmomatically profess Bradigan's situaton as being blatantly sinful.  Maybe it is sinful.  Maybe it is not.  I didn't want to reply to give my opinion of that specific situation.  But I did want to reply simply because of the concern I had about some of the strife that seems to have arisen.

I'm not really going to post on this issue any further because it's not something that I am feeling drawn to at this time. 

God bless.  :)
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2007, 02:25:28 AM »

Hi Joey,

I guess we have heard all sides on this pretty much.
So it is ultimately something that the people involved must work out for themselves.
And of course we have no free will, so it is all God caused  ;)

Rom 14:10  Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God;
v. 11  for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."
v. 12  So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
v. 13  Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2007, 04:42:59 AM »

Marriage is divinely instituted.

Gen 2 : 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall become united and cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

NOTICE the above scripture does NOT say the following….therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother, shall become one flesh and THEN become united and cleave to his wife.

God is a God of order!

Marriage is a covenant relationship

Mal 2 : 7,8 For the Priests lips should guard and keep pure the knowledge of My law and the people should seek inquire for and require instruction at his mouth; for he is the ;messenger of the Lord of hosts. 8. But you have turned aside out of the way; you have caused many to stumble by your instruction in the law you have corrupted the covenant of Levi with Me says the Lord of hosts.

Marriage is celebrated with great rejoicing.
Jeremiah 33 : 11 The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of THEM that shall say, Praise the Lord of hosts; for the Lord is good; for His mercy endureth for ever; and of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the Lord, For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, says the Lord.John 3 : 29 He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the groomsman who stands by and LISTENS to HIM rejoices greatly and heartily on account of the bridegroom’s voice. This then is my pleasure and joy, and it is now complete.

Marriage rejected in latter days.

1 Tim 4 : 2,3 Through the hypocrisy and pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared, cauterised, 3 Who forbid people to marry ….which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and have an increasingly clear knowledge of the truth.

Marriage is illustrative of Christ’s union with His Church
Eph 5 : 23,24,32

For the HUSBAND is head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the church, Himself the Savior of His body 24. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their HUSBANDS. THIS MYSTERY IS VERY GREAT…………

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 05:00:19 AM by Arcturus »
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Redbird

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2007, 05:00:53 AM »

So, it sounds like the recipe for God's marriage plan is;

1. Leave
2. Cleave
3. Become as one

Easier said than done!  But, with God, all things are possible.

Peace, Lisa
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Craig

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  • Posts: 4282
  • There are two kinds of cops.The quick and the dead
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2007, 09:45:19 AM »


I've heard Ray say a few times that "the bible doesn't always mean what it says, but it always means what it means."  I've seen people say that we must back up our beliefs on this issue with scripture.  That certainly is true, but it's never really as simple as that. We should always strive to seek out the spirit of the scripture, as opposed to merely just the printed letter.  After all, every major Christian denomination in the world backs up their doctrines with scripture.  So just because the scriptures speak of marriage feasts and so forth doesn't necessarily mean that the scriptures endorse an actual  wedding ceremony, with an exchange of vows, conducted by a "minister'' or "priest.''


Joey that is what Joe stated earlier

Quote
The ceremony, the ring and all that is not important at all it is the public proclaimation and record of this proclaimation in regard to the intent for a man and a woman to love and cherish each other for the rest of their natural lives. The state requires a marriage certificate in the case of dividing property or inheritence to the children, of course a will can cover these things, social security benefits and other things are affected by marriage and even the length of the marriage.

I would think God would care less about the ceremomy.

Craig
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Bradigans

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2007, 11:23:20 AM »

Philippians 1:18 - What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 


Just replying to someone’s comment of, “This scripture from Paul seems fitting, tho I am not comparing myself to Paul, not at all.” First of all 1 Corinthians 3:22 - Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's. 1 Corinthians 3:5 - Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?    You're not stealing his quotes. He is a part of the body. I believe we have got to get out of this attitude of I coined this or she coined that. We are one body. 1 Corinthians 12:14 - For the body is not one member, but many. When the Holy Spirit lays something on one's heart it's for the entire body. 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. If you coming from THE WORD (OR TRULY ATTEMPTING BECAUSE GOD KNOWS YOUR HEART) it's not about coining anything. Who's the head, and who's Spirit is THE WORD? Proverbs 27:17 - Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.    This is for me as much as for everyone else. 2 Timothy 2:6 - The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.

IN HIS LOVE,


Bradford
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2007, 11:33:28 AM »


Hi Bradford,

I think I get your point  :)
I just didn't want to come across as trying to appear superior or like a know it all.
I'm learning many things as I go, just like everybody else.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Bradigans

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2007, 11:51:08 AM »

"Jesus did not seem to discount marriage or even the ceremony, ritual or feast when He walked the earth."


1 Corinthians 10:31 - Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 
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Kirk

  • Guest
Re: Reveling in infidelities
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2007, 11:39:48 PM »

Hi Kirk,

I just noticed that was your first post!  Welcome in His name; we're happy to have you here and yes anything biblical that you have, please share it with us.

In Him,

Dwight




Dwight.....Let's see if I can figure out this response system.  I hope this posts.....

I see the pattern as pretty simple:

1. mutual dedication towards one another (until death)
2. public proclamation of dedication
3. sexual intercourse

This pattern is presented more or less in Genesis (Adam and Eve) and again when Isaac and
Rebekah are betrothed.

This would be the Biblical pattern, and adjunct civil laws should also be followed.  When my wife
and I took out our marriage license, we were technically then married.  The ceremony followed
three weeks later.
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