Seeing the Book of Job in a new light

[skydreamers]

When I was a new Christian the Book of Job used to really intimidate me.  I remember being told once that God and Satan were betting over the fate of poor Job as to whether or not he would break and submit to God or the devil.  It was a test which could have gone either way.  This really freaked me out!  Needless to say I avoided the book for years. 

But since coming to bibletruths.com I'm starting to see this whole story differently.  I realize there is a tremendous amount going on in Job's story, but what struck me as I was reading it recently is how much it really shows our lack of "free wil" and Satan's lack of "free will".  At first it seems that Satan is more obedient to God than most humans in that God tells him you can do "such and such but not such and such" and Satan obeys.  But then I realized it is simply that he cannot perform outside of the will of God. 

I used to feel really sorry for poor Job who seemingly had all these disasters happen to him for no good reason.  But this is how I now see it:  it looks like Job was sort of like Adam and Eve in that he had not yet had his "experience of evil to humble" him.  He had not yet acquired the much needed "knowledge of evil". 

Job 42:1-6 ESV
1  Then Job answered the LORD and said:
2  "I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
3  'Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
4  'Hear, and I will speak; I will question you, and you make it known to me.'
5  I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you;
6  therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes."


It seems Job didn't really understand God before or his own true spiritual condition, but this whole experience truly humbled him.  So he spiritually grew and matured from it.  And it seems that this could have been accomplished in no other way than by the afflictions he suffered.  This now makes sense to me and gives purpose and meaning to why god put Job through the suffering. 

Like I said, I know there is so much more to Job's story but I'm just so excited to see these things in a different way that is not so scary or intimidating.  Yay!  It makes digging for more truth such a joy. 

Peace to all,
Diana

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Diana,

Can you see Job as representing your own spiritual walk? Where you were, how God got your attention?

The following is from a thread we had going a while back. 

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2376.0.html 


   Job 7 (Amplified Bible)
   

  1 IS THERE not an [appointed] warfare and hard labor to man upon earth? And are not his days like the days of a hireling?

  2 As a servant earnestly longs for the shade and the evening shadows, and as a hireling who looks for the reward of his work,

  3 So am I allotted months of futile [suffering], and [long] nights of misery are appointed to me.

  4 When I lie down I say, When shall I arise and the night be gone? And I am full of tossing to and fro till the dawning of the day.

  5 My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken and has become loathsome, and it closes up and breaks out afresh.

  6 My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle, and are spent without hope.

  7 Oh, remember that my life is but wind (a puff, a breath, a sob); my eye shall see good no more.

  8 The eye of him who sees me shall see me no more; while your eyes are upon me, I shall be gone.

  9 As the cloud is consumed and vanishes away, so he who goes down to Sheol (the place of the dead) shall come up no more.

10 He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.

11 Therefore I will not restrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit, I will complain in the bitterness of my soul [O Lord]!

12 Am I the sea, or the sea monster, that You set a watch over me?

13 When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint,

14 Then You scare me with dreams and terrify me through visions,

15 So that I would choose strangling and death rather than these my bones.

16 I loathe my life; I would not live forever. Let me alone, for my days are a breath (futility).

17 What is man that You should magnify him and think him important? And that You should set Your mind upon him?(A)

18 And that You should visit him every morning and try him every moment?

19 How long will Your [plaguing] glance not look away from me, nor You let me alone till I swallow my spittle?

20 If I have sinned, what [harm] have I done You, O You Watcher and Keeper of men? Why have You set me as a mark for You, so that I am a burden to myself [and You]?

21 And why do You not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now shall I lie down in the dust; and [even if] You will seek me diligently, [it will be too late, for] I shall not be.

Not feeling like this presently but Brothers and Sisters I can feel real empathy for and relate to where Job is coming from here. How about you?




His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Diana,

  I have been looking for that Scripture where it says that no purpose of God can be thwarted.  Your post makes me want to skip the tithing and Lake of Fire series and go into the Free Will papers, but they will come in their own time.

  Thanks for sharing some of your journey with us.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hebrews 12 : 6,7,8 for the Lord corrects and disciplines everyone whom He loves, and He punishes, even scourges, every son whom He accepts and welcomes to His heart and cherishes. 7. You must submit to and endure correction for discipline; God is dealing with you as with sons, For what son is there whom his father does not thus train and correct and discipline? 8. Now if you are exempt from correction and left without discipline in which all of God's children share, then you are illegitimate offspring and not true sons at all.

Sometimes I feel as if God has given me time out! That is the worst....when He is not so evident in His Presence to me and when it just feels like me is there? Know what I mean anyone?

Peace to you

Arcturus

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Arcturus,

  Yeah I sure do.  Sometimes I would rather the punishment and discipline rather than the time out.  I think that is what my lesson right now is, to discern God's presence while in time out.  And it is hard to do sometimes if not all the time.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

[skydreamers]

Hi Joe, thank you for directing me to that thread...I missed that one and there is some great stuff posted in that thread!!  There is much of what Job says that I connect with.  But mostly I still  get overwhelmed and tired at having to see the beast in the mirror.  I want the "old man" of sin to die already!  I'm waiting ever so IMPATIENTLY for sin to NOT have dominion over me. 

Anne,you said

Sometimes I would rather the punishment and discipline rather than the time out.

I have to say I agree.  Sometimes I feel like there is not enough scourging in my life.  I know there has been at times but right now things are going fairly smoothly for me and that actually unsettles me.  I know that seems strange but having learned what I have this year I realize I cannot avoid the needed discipline so now I'm like....bring it on, let's get it over with already!  But God is teaching me patience I think, because I know I have none of it!  I am trying to raise two small children and feel like I'm failing miserably because I have no patience.  This is my greatest challenge right now, trying to figure out how to correctly and lovingly "train up my children in the way they should go".  Come to think of it, I suppose this is the area where God is disciplining me right now, but I hate the thought that my children get any brunt of it....But I guess you can't exactly learn the art of parenting until you become one.

Arcturus, when you said

when He is not so evident in His Presence to me and when it just feels like me is there? Know what I mean anyone?

I have felt this many times but the worst was a couple years ago when I was having an awful dry spell...no interest in the bible or spiritual things whatsoever...and the whole time I felt guilty.  Then suddenly and dramatically it all changed and for a year I was driven to study everything I could get my hands on.  I was all over the place.  Then out of nowhere I found bibletruths.com and for the last year I have been intensely studying this material.  Now I'm coming up for air, so to speak, and calming down a bit, and I'm at that place of trying to understand how to now apply everything I have learned to my own personal life.  I've been focused on all the head knowledge it seems but feeling like for the first time close to God, seeing for the first time His role as my Father which has been awesome, but for the life of me I can't seem to turn around and understand how to be a good parent to my children....and this is where I feel He is at arms length with me right now.  It is wierd to feel Him so close one day and then the next it seems like...nothing.  But it does not compare to what I felt a couple of years ago...boy oh boy I was really dead inside then and for such a long time.  I thank God always for taking me out of that.  That felt like the longest time out ever!

Peace to all,
Diana

[pylady]

Anne and Arcturus,

God is in the "time outs" too!

It seems like after a difficult time in my life - a period of intense discipline I've sometimes felt like Job that I couldn't endure it.  That's when I've called out to our Father to help me too endure it, and to learn the lesson that He wants me to learn.  It seems like this is when a period of calm or a time out comes in.

I used to feel that during these times He wasn't present in my life, at least I didn't feel His presence and it frightened me, but now it's more like He is saying "I've heard your prayer, rest awhile and meditate on what you've learned." 

Now, during these time outs is when I feel His love the most, because I know He heard my prayer and is showing me mercy and love.

Forgive me, I'm not very good at explaining things.  Hope this makes some kind of sense.

God's peace,

                  Cindy

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Cindy,

  Yep I am in one of those time out periods in my life.  Things are quiet with God and the noise of the world is so loud.  It really does not help being sick.  I seem to pray and they never break through the ceiling.

  I guess after seeing the events transpire after this morning on the forum once it showed resolving trends, I went back into time out. 

  I know that God is still there.  I think he is teaching me on how to rely on my brothers and sisters and family.  I have never been one to ask for a prayer request or help or advice.  I have always been the strong independant one who struggled with things on my own.  And I know that God is reaching me through others.  It is a bit maddening and a bit provoking, but I will get over it.

  I did ask for patience the other day, and I know that God has taken that request seriously.  My son insists on playing with cables.  I never once raised my voice to him this afternoon even though I felt like a parrot saying No Sir.  David-Lee, No Sir.  Perhaps I should get a tape recorder and save my voice.  That would be awesome.  But, as I was getting a little peeved, a thought pervaded my being.  "Child, how many times have I told you no.  I shown you infinite patience, do the same for your son."  Wow, that stopped me dead in my tracks and drove me to my knees.  I picked up the little one and I prayed to God right then and there on my living room floor. 

  It is object lessons that I am getting from others that are impacting me so much.  I know that God is there, and it was great to hear him speak in that stillness.  It is just irritating that I do not feel him as I used to, but I know that is no reflection on me.  I know that is the lesson and the form of discipline that I need to learn right now.

Diana,

  Just wanted to say that I can not imagine two children in my life, I am having enough trials to develop my patience with one little one.  I constantly wonder how a 7 month old bundle of joy and laughs can be so exasperating at times.  But, then I wonder how God can love a 27 year old bundle of joy and laughes that can be so exasperating.  I am constantly humbled in my life every day.  As long as I am humble for some reason that makes it easier to have the fruits of the spirit and to accept the lessons and discipline that God is showing to me in my life. 

  I will pray for you and your little ones.  There is one thing that I do when I feel like lashing out, I imagine what Jesus did on that cross and when others scouraged him and mocked him.  If anyone had the right to lose his patience he did.  And yet he did not.  I always say a prayer when I am about to lash out at others to God to bless me with the ability to stand and be patient.  Most of the time this works.  At times it does not work, well I put myself in time out.  And that has been so effective.  I can only imagine in a few years, when Mommy is sitting in the corner, and my son asks what I am doing in time out, and I cannot even begin to imagine what I am going to say to him.

  I will pray for you and your little ones.

Arcturus,

  I am glad that you mentioned the little time out periods.  I was going through one for about a week and wondered if anyone else went through them.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Cindy

Perhaps you mean this if I understand you correctly. I agree, we should discern the difference between time out and peace being still!

Phil 4 : 7 And God's peace shall be yours, that tranquil state of a soul assured of its salvation through Christ, and so fearing nothing from God and being content with its earthly lot of whatever sort that is, that peace, which transcends all understanding shall garrison and mount guard over your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.

I like the "garrison" and often feel garrisoned in, when experiencing my time outs!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[skydreamers]

Hi Anne, I just had to say thank you for your post.  God really spoke to me through you, especially when you said:

But, as I was getting a little peeved, a thought pervaded my being.  "Child, how many times have I told you no.  I shown you infinite patience, do the same for your son."

I've sensed god saying this to me many times!

There is one thing that I do when I feel like lashing out, I imagine what Jesus did on that cross and when others scouraged him and mocked him.  If anyone had the right to lose his patience he did.  And yet he did not.  I always say a prayer when I am about to lash out at others to God to bless me with the ability to stand and be patient.  Most of the time this works.  At times it does not work, well I put myself in time out.

This is awesome and they were much needed words for me.  Thank you for your prayers.  My prayers go out likewise to you, as well as to all on this forum. 

Peace, Diana

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

To All,

   I am still waiting for the last chapter or verses of that chapter to come true in my life.   If not now, then it will eventually come true whether in this life or in the next in eternity.  I am blessed with blessed assurance.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire