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Author Topic: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?  (Read 24520 times)

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brothertoall

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2007, 03:47:15 PM »

Joe,

 If  1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 Could the word HATE be a mis-translation?


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hillsbororiver

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2007, 03:51:57 PM »

Hi Bobby,

Yes, I can see the King James overstated or mistranslated the word, Ray has taught this verse as actually being "loved less" which still shows varying degrees of God's love for those in this age.

G3404
μισέω
miseō
mis-eh'-o
From a primary word μῖσος misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
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brothertoall

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2007, 03:55:56 PM »



This seems to say not all are loved equally in this age.

Joe I am surprised you would even make a statement like that!!!!

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 I thought that reconciliation was for all.Is that not what the bible truths teaches???

bobby
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2007, 04:02:40 PM »

Bobby, perhaps you should read this again: http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm

Dennis
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brothertoall

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2007, 04:05:57 PM »

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

I do not see where in Ray's paper that Christ hated them!!!
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Craig

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2007, 04:11:04 PM »



This seems to say not all are loved equally in this age.

Joe I am surprised you would even make a statement like that!!!!

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 I thought that reconciliation was for all.Is that not what the bible truths teaches???

bobby


Bobby, I'm going to chime in here. 

Earlier, I think in this thread, perhaps another it was shown that the word original word for love had several meanings in the original language, unfortunatly only one in our language.  Notice Joe said "In this age"  Obviously God loves everybody and in the end "all in all" and the same.  But in this age God is working with the "elect" whoever they may be and in turn shows more "love/like" toward them.  Just as he did with Esau and Jacob. 

We can try as we might to love as God loves, but our carnal beast won't let it happen (the true Godly love).  Though overtime, as we overcome and become more and more Christ in us, the love and compassion we show will also grow.  We won't reach perfection in this age.  Though we should strive for it.

I hope I'm clear to folks, but if not bear with me.

Craig
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Craig

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2007, 04:13:24 PM »

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

I do not see where in Ray's paper that Christ hated them!!!

And where do you see in this thread, that anyone said Christ "hated" anyone? ??? ???

Craig
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brothertoall

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2007, 04:17:48 PM »

Craig the word hate was brought up in this thread and then I was imediately directed to Ray's paper on the Hipocrite thing.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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Craig

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2007, 04:21:56 PM »

Show it to me? ???

I saw the verse from scripture that "Esua I hated"
But I do not see where anyone said Christ hated anyone or even infered that.  Joe even gave the reference to that verse as to mean "love-less"

Let's don't put words in others mouths.

Craig
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2007, 04:22:03 PM »

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

I do not see where in Ray's paper that Christ hated them!!!

No one said that.

Bobby, in this age of the flesh God made vessels for honor and dishonor. We love the vessels of dishonor because they have no choice but to be what God made them. But we do not love their fruits/what they produce or what they are/hold. We are not required to love evil.

Isa 5:20  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Evil people will eventually be equal and equally loved, but not in this age.

Dennis
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2007, 04:34:31 PM »

This would be a good article to read:  http://bible-truths.com/kiss.htm
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Kat

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2007, 04:35:55 PM »

Hi Rocky,

Quote
I  know many believers/brothers who see their sin, and cry out for mercy for Christ to heal them, yet don't believe everything that Ray teaches, or for that matter haven't been enlightened yet to UR.

What I 'm trying to say by believers, is not all the called who have some truth, but those that are made new.

2Co 5:17  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

I took some excerpts from Ray's part 8 LoF, to help explain what I trying to say.

http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html ----------------------------------------------------

ARE YOU "CALLED AND CHOSEN" OR JUST "CALLED?"

Let me first state that there is an order in the process of being called to Sonship. First you are called, and then you are chosen from among the called. And we have already learned that the "chosen" are also the "few." Quite frankly, not unlike a casting call. Many are called to come to the casting rehearsal, but only a relative few will be chosen for the actual performance. Which are you? I will not be your personal judge, however, as we progress in this series, you will be confronted with dozens of Scriptures by which you can JUDGE YOURSELF by the aid of God’s Spirit.

But of the "many called," we are told, "few are chosen" (Matt. 20:16). Why is that? God has intended it to be such. We are given the parable of the "sower of seed" where much of the seed fell by the side of the tilled soil, and the birds ate it; some had no depth and withered in the sun; still more fell among thorns and were chocked, but some fell upon good soil and produced much fruit. Many seed are sown, but few seed produce good fruit. "Seed" we see everywhere in the Church; "fruit" of God’s spirit is more rare. These few have the added designation of:

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).

Now, pay attention: All which God foreknew, He then designates beforehand (He hand-picks them, if you will). And therefore, since He has already designated them beforehand, when they are born in whatever generation God designates; He then calls them. Now it is true that God calls MANY OTHERS whom He has NOT designated to be "conformed to the image of His Son" AT THE TIME that each generation appears in history.

When Jesus says that,

"Many will say unto me in that day, Lord, Lord… Then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity" (Matt. 722-23),

He is not speaking of a minority but a majority. The "many" NEVER means the minority!

The word "overcometh" as used in the KJV is a good word and descriptive of what we are to do. However, "conquers" is a more precise word, and adds the dimension of being "victorious," as in battle, as our Christian walk is most definitely a battle.

Notice what "overcomers or conquerers" in the Seven Churches are promised:

"To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the tree of life" (Rev. 2:7).

"He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death" (Ver. 11).

That’s because they now have CHRIST, the "tree of life Who abolishes death."

Those who are being judged NOW, will not go through the lake of fire judgment, or be hurt by the second death.

"A new name written, which no man knows except he that receives it." [That’s CHRIST, Who] "…had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself … and His name is called The Word of God" (Rev. 19:12-13).

That’s CHRIST, Jesus is "The Word of God" (John 1:1). The world often treats God’s saints as if they were heretics. Only those who possess the Name of Jesus Christ truly "know" what the name is and all that it represents. Not all who speak of the Name, have the name "written" within them. Men’s lips are often far far from their heart.
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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rrammfcitktturjsp

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2007, 04:40:00 PM »

Dennis,

  You do make a good point.  I have not reached that point to where I can love all equally nor can imagine myself getting to that point.

  911 tore at my heart becuase 2 special and dear friends of my family died in those towers.  I am ashamed to still admit that I feel hatred and anything but love to those people who caused this to happen.  I have been praying in the meantime to learn to love them.

  I guess that I have to say that at least I am praying that God feels my heart with such love that one of these days I can say I love them and forgive them.

  Dennis thanks for sharing your point of view.  I had been feeling pretty rough these past few weeks when the 911 topic was introduced and Ray wrote his paper.  I guess I had not yet finished the grieving process.  I kinda am still numb with shock and it has been a couple of years since that event.  Guess I got work to do.

  I cannot imagane as you do, loving these who destroy lives with the love that I feel for my precious son and my dear husband.  Maybe one of these days that will change, but until that day comes I shall pray for a heart that is capable of loving all as God loves everyone.  And man oh man do I have a very long way to go.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. Mcguire
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brothertoall

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2007, 04:44:16 PM »

Ok here's a question and I would like an honest answer.

 Are there any here at this forum that you, Dennis or Joe or anyone for that matter that you have different degrees of love for those here at the forum and for those who left the forum.Now keep in mind that none of us really know that we are the elect. Am I correct on that or not?

 before I came OUT OF HER this kind of love thing was preached from the pulpit. I fell for it then but I will not fall for that now. There are too many scriptures that state that God is love and I do not believe He limits His love according to the way the world looks at love.God is perfect and therefore His love is perfect. The same yesterday,today, and for the ages.

 I am a little shocked here to think that anyone would think that God has degrees of love for all.If all is done according to His will, is it not done in love(His LOVE for all) and some will realize it now and some will realize it then. I do believe that all those who are LOVED by God will see this and those who thought he did not love them now will be elated at His LOVE for them from the beginning at the end of the age.

 To me to even think that the elect are loved more than the called or those not dragged to Him yet makes me feel a little depressed.

 Why would Christ tell us to love our enemies but then tell us that well I love this one a little bit more than this one.

 If Ray has done a paper on this one I would love to read it!!! Mercy and Love are 2 different things. Even wicked people can show mercy.

bobby

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brothertoall

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2007, 04:46:34 PM »

Anne I am seeing in this thread that ALL of us have a long way to go. Nothing is impossible with God. That is one of the biggest desires I have and that is to love ALL just as Christ did and does.

bobby
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 04:48:07 PM by brothertoall »
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Craig

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2007, 04:50:39 PM »

Can anyone picture this in their minds.  Christ in the temple with the money changers.

John 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables; 16And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise.

Now can you picture this?

Christ saying, "I love you"...WACK, "and I love you too"... SMASH, "see this whip, I love you all" ...CRASH!

Not the picture I see.....

He had a righteous anger against them, and I'm sure his words where filled with righteous anger also.

Unfortunatly our anger is very rarely righteous in nature...the "beast within" lives.

Craig
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rocky

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2007, 04:50:48 PM »

The wrath of God is against ungodliness of men (romans 1), not the man themselves.  Essau in my opinion is a similtude of the ungodliness.  God hates the ungodliness, not the man.  

just my 2 cents.  

« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 04:51:27 PM by rocky »
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Craig

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2007, 04:56:14 PM »

Ok here's a question and I would like an honest answer.


I will answer but first answer the question that I asked of you earlier

Quote
Show it to me?  ???

I saw the verse from scripture that "Esua I hated"
But I do not see where anyone said Christ hated anyone or even infered that.  Joe even gave the reference to that verse as to mean "love-less"

Let's don't put words in others mouths.

Craig
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brothertoall

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2007, 04:57:21 PM »

Rocky it warms my heart to know that you are seeing it the way God is helping me to see it. I do not feel so alone on this and I thank you brother.

bobby
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rocky

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Re: DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2007, 05:01:17 PM »

Rocky it warms my heart to know that you are seeing it the way God is helping me to see it. I do not feel so alone on this and I thank you brother.

bobby

5:15 And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.


for me, I don't think this verse is just talking about the chosen.  I think it is no man. 
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