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[DWIGHT]

Brothers and sisters,

This whole thread reminds me of the garden of Eden.  God told Adam and Eve to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  Right and wrong!  Yet all the time, they ignored the Tree of Life.  My ways are not your ways and My thoughts are not your thoughts.  I don't think we will ever come to an agreement on this subject when we try to out scripture each other.  These last two major threads have obviously caused some hurt among us and I feel that it time for us to pull back a little and let it rest.  I don't mean it to anybody in particular for we are all members of His body.  I say all this in love.

Your brother in Him,

Dwight

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Dwight,

  I would have to agree with you on this one.  This thread too has the possiblity of getting very explosive like the marraige threads.

  We have had a bad day on the forum yesterday and I do not wish to see it repeated.

  One word to post to this post, and that is discernment.

  Good post by the way.


Susan,

  I had heard that agape too was the highest form of love.  It will be interesting to see what Ray is thinking about.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

[ciy]

Dennis
The following is what I meant for my post to say and was based on.

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that theyt might see that they themselves are beasts." Ecclesiastes 3:18

"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding.  In all the thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths."  Proverbs 3:5-6

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." Colossians 1:27

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or lo there! for behold the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21

"Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1 Corinthians 10:12

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matthew 24:13

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." Matthew7:20

"I am the vine, ye are the branches; He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John15:5

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."  John 15:10

Luke 15:11-32 the parable of the lost son God favors one at one time and the other at another time.

"As a man thinketh in his heart so is he." Proverbs 23:7a

"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13

"Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart." Psalms 37:4

"For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God." John 16:27

John 16:20-26 Jesus' prayer for all of us

I understand that John says that Jesus loved him in John 21:20 but I do not think that means as an exclusion of loving others because Mark uses the exact same words in chapter 10:21 about the rich young ruler.

I really was only trying to bring some light to the thread which seemed to me to be getting a little out of hand.  I am sorry I if I offended you.  I study and have been studying Ray's papers, emails, and audios for a year now.  I find much joy in it.  I hope to attend a gathering sometime in the future.

CIY

[Bradigans]

This was simply a message i sent to a potential brother. i'm sorry i didn't clarify. i was just sharing with forum, and hoping for prayer (THE HOLY SPIRIT LEADING). i apologize for not clarifying...


IN HIS LOVE,


Bradford

[sansmile]

Hi all,
I have been watching this post,  and i to am a bit confused about God loving one more over another. Ray has taught before, that the elect do not feel Gods wrath, and that to me shows that God must have some sort of "favouritism" for the elect, in that He doesn't pour out His wrath on them.
Now,  that might just mean that the elect need less "chastising" than the called?  It doesn't to me, actually mean that God loves them less. We could have 2 children,  one obedient one disobedient....the disobedient child will probably feel our wrath....doesn't mean we love that child less.

Ray has used these scriptures to show who receives Gods wrath:

"Let NO MAN DECEIVE YOU with vain words: for because of these things [vain words of deceiving men upon the called children] comes THE WRATH of God upon the children of disobedience" (Eph. 5:6).

and the elect gets this advice(warning):

"BE NOT YE [God’s Elect] therefore PARTAKERS WITH THEM" ! ! ! (eph 5:7)


But does this say He loves us more?
The elect are being judged now and the rest will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgement. Then, the elect will rule with HIM!
This to me shows God trusts the obdedient, the elect to rule with Him, Is that favouritism ?? More love for them than another?  Or wisdom??
My belief is, the elect are the favored  children of God, but that He loves all men.  What do others think?

God Bless You all
Sandie

[iris]

Don't know if I've learned anything here or not 

But its certainly been an interesting thread. 

Peace to all

Iris

[brothertoall]

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

[hillsbororiver]

My belief is, the elect are the favored  children of God, but that He loves all men.  What do others think?

God Bless You all
Sandie

Hi Sandie,

That is a beautiful way to put it, the Lord does (at this time) favor some (chosen) over others and will use His "favored" His Elect to bring ALL to Him.

Did not get any response to my two previous references to Romans 9 but let's try one more time, maybe 3 is the charm;

        Romans 9 (Amplified Bible)

    11And the children were yet unborn and had so far done nothing either good or evil. Even so, in order further to carry out God's purpose of selection (election, choice), which depends not on works or what men can do, but on Him Who calls [them],

    12It was said to her that the elder [son] should serve the younger [son].

    13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (held in [a]relative disregard in comparison with My feeling for Jacob).

    14What shall we conclude then? Is there injustice upon God's part? Certainly not!

    15For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion (pity) on whom I will have compassion.

    16So then [God's gift] is not a question of human will and human effort, but of God's mercy. [It depends not on one's own willingness nor on his strenuous exertion as in running a race, but on God's having mercy on him.]

    17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have raised you up for this very purpose of displaying My power in [dealing with] you, so that My name may be proclaimed the whole world over.

    18So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills.

    19You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will?

    20But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and answer back to God? Will what is formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus?(H)

    21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?

    22What if God, although fully intending to show [the awfulness of] His wrath and to make known His power and authority, has tolerated with much patience the vessels (objects) of [His] anger which are ripe for destruction?(I)

    23And [what if] He thus purposes to make known and show the wealth of His glory in [dealing with] the vessels (objects) of His mercy which He has prepared beforehand for glory,



His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[sansmile]

Hi Joe,


So, in these scriptures God is showing us He uses who He chooses to magnify His power. Wether its hardening hearts or building His elect, His will is done. It's like in Job when God showed Job the foolishness of his (jobs) pride, when job thought that it was his will , God showed him that He is the potter, He has mercy with whom He wills.

(Job 10:9)  Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?

and in Isa
isa 64:  But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

and in Jer

(I(Jer 18:4)  And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

(Jer 18:5)  Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

(Jer 18:6)  O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.


So really, who are we to ask whom God loves more?? He is bringing about His will through using all men in His plan. We all are clay pots made by Him the potter, all marred some more than others at His hand.

God is good

Sandie

[rocky]

Does favortism mean less love.  I guess for me, that is the question.  I don't think so.  At times I favor one kid over another, based on reasons I deem necessary.  My love doesn't change for them.  I dont think God's love can have degrees of love, like I love my favored/graced child 100 degrees, and my hardened child 1 degree.   So in our daily walk, are we to love others less than others.  If God's spirit is in us, no; but we can favor like minded individuals over non like individuals, hopefully discerned not by the flesh but my the spirit. 

I think the discussion we had earlier re; prodigal son is a good example.  The elder son was less favored, but still had all of God's love, "everything I have is yours". 

 

[ciy]

Just so I am not misunderstood with what I have posted and causing any strife, I agree with Joe, Sandie, Bobby, and Rocky.  I love Ecclesiastes and the following verses in chapter 9 seem to deal with God's timing in people's lives.

 1For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.

   2All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

   3This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

11I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

CIY

[Dennis Vogel]

Okay, everyone has said their piece and any further discussion would not serve this forum.

Time to lock this topic.

Dennis

[hillsbororiver]

I for one can not claim to know the mind of God when it comes to who or why He loves, favors, chooses, elects, selects one over the other but we can see all through scripture that this is indeed the case, ultimately all will be Sons and Daughters that we can agree on but in the OT the NT we see examples of this (favoring) continually and consistantly.
 
His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe