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Author Topic: He calms the sea  (Read 5212 times)

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Kat

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He calms the sea
« on: February 02, 2007, 05:03:57 PM »

CALMING THE RAGING WAVES OF THE SEA

http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html ----------------------------------------------------

"But the ship was now in the midst of the sea [or lake] TOSSED with the waves…" (Matt. 14:24)

Was this a good thing that the disciples were being "tossed" with the waves? Not according to them. They were frightened! But Jesus wanted them to experience this "tossing" with the waves.

Jesus did not come to them until the "fourth watch" (between 3 and 6 am), when they were now "in the MIDST of the sea." And the winds and waves were very strong so that they were being "TOSSED."

Notice that it was Jesus Who commanded them to take this ship to the other shore:

"And straightway Jesus constrained [Greek: ‘compelled’] His disciples to get into a ship, and to go before Him unto the other side, while He sent the multitudes away" (Matt. 14:22).

Why did Jesus need to "constrain or compel" them? The word "constrained" in this verse is translated from the Greek word anankazo, and notice its definition:
"Anankazo denotes ‘to put constraint upon, to constrain, to compel, whether by threat, entreaty, force or persuasion." Strong’s Greek Dictionary p. 18.

Wow! "To compel, whether by THREAT, ENTREATY, FORCE or PERSUASION."

It sounds to me like His disciples DIDN’T WANT TO GO! Jesus didn’t just say: "You go on, fellows, and I’ll catch up with you later." No, He COMPELLED them to go! They obviously didn’t want to go. The sea was probably ALREADY turbulent and scary, and I am sure they realized the further they went from shore the worse it would be. They were afraid to go, but Jesus "COMPELLED" them to go; they had to go! And so they went.

Do you not see yourself in this scene? Do you not picture yourself being compelled by our Lord to enter the dark and scary trials of this life? Do you not feel TOSSED by the frightening trials and tribulations of this life?
Let me give you a verse that I have never heard quoted in my life. It is not a popular verse. I doubt that very many will even remember having read it. Christian teachers like to avoid verses like this:

"Very truly, I tell you, when you were younger, you used to fasten your own belt and to go wherever you wished. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will fasten a belt around you and take you WHERE YOU DO NOT WISH TO GO" (John 21:18, New Revised Standard Version).

All of the apostles came to understand this verse experientially, as am I "TOSSED."

The word "tossed" appears but four times in the New Testament, and all four times it is translated from a different word.
In this verse, tossed is translated from the Greek word basanizo, and here is its definition: "#928. basanizo, to torture:--torment. Basanizo, as a verb, properly signifies in Greek
(1) ‘to test by rubbing on the touchstone’ [basanos, ‘a touchstone’], then,
(1a) ‘to question by applying torture’; hence
(1b) ‘to vex, torment’;
(2) in the NT in the passive voice,
(2a) ‘to be harassed, (2b) distressed’;
(2c) it is said of men struggling in a boat against wind and waves: ‘But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed (bazanizo) with waves: for the wind was contrary’ (Mat. 14:24; Mark 6:48)." (Strong’s Greek Dictionary, p. 51).

And where have we seen this word basanos before? In my paper on "Lazarus and the Rich man" we saw that the Rich man was also, "…in torments (Greek: basanos—a touchstone)…" (Luke 16:23). This is mental, emotional, spiritual torment. The Rich man was not physically tortured by the flames anymore than the disciples were physically tortured by the waves, or that Mary and Joseph were physically tortured when they couldn’t find the young boy Jesus.
 
"And when they saw Him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto Him, Son, why has thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing (Greek: basanos)" (Luke 2:48).

I assure you that Joseph and Mary were not physically tortured! Neither were the disciples (basanizo) physically tortured. Nor those who go through the fire of I Cor. 3:15, nor those who go through , "the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Strong’s Dictionary tells us that basanizo can mean: "to question by applying torture."

It ought to be apparent to anyone that for God, "to question" someone by "applying torture" is silly. God ALREADY KNOWS what is in man. He doesn’t need to torture him to learn the truth. But it is absolutely necessary for man to go through this bassnizo, or torment because it is part of his spiritual development and spiritual perfection.

What is the final outcome of a humanity that is likened to, "Raging Waves of the Sea?" Will they spew out their raging foam of hatred and wickedness forever? No, certainly not. There is a cure for every disease, a solution to every problem, a Saviour for every lost soul. The "raging waves of the sea" are not match for Him Who walks on water.

"And He arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, PEACE, BE STILL. And the wind ceased, and there was a GREAT CALM. And He said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? How is it that ye have no faith? [How is it that Christendom has NO FAITH?] And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of Man is this, that even the WIND AND THE SEA OBEY HIM?" (Mark 4:39-41).

Has Jesus lost His touch? Do we think that Jesus no longer can make "the wind and the sea OBEY Him?"

"And the SEA gave up the dead [spiritually dead] which were in it [these spiritually dead are also called, "raging waves of the sea" who are "foaming out their own shame" Jude 13] …and they were judged every man according to their works… And whosoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).

Will these wicked "raging waves of the sea" continue foaming out their or shame for ALL ETERNITY, in a place of eternal torture? Or will Jesus once again walk on the waters and cause a "GREAT CALM" to come over all humanity?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I find this to be a strong message, even with the trails we will face in our lives, there is still comfort in this message for me too, as all is of God.

Heb 13:5  Without covetousness the behaviour, being content with the things present, for He hath said, `No, I will not leave, no, nor forsake thee,'
v. 6  so that we do boldly say, `The Lord is to me a helper, and I will not fear what man shall do to me.' (YLT)

Isa 41:13  For I, Jehovah your God, will hold your right hand, saying to you, Do not fear; I will help you.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 05:05:47 PM by Kat »
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YellowStone

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2007, 05:35:56 PM »

Kat wrote:  :)

I find this to be a strong message, even with the trails we will face in our lives, there is still comfort in this message for me too, as all is of God.

Heb 13:5  Without covetousness the behaviour, being content with the things present, for He hath said, `No, I will not leave, no, nor forsake thee,'
v. 6  so that we do boldly say, `The Lord is to me a helper, and I will not fear what man shall do to me.' (YLT)

Isa 41:13  For I, Jehovah your God, will hold your right hand, saying to you, Do not fear; I will help you.



Kat what a truly wonderfully sobering post. Your words above immediately took me to a green valley beside still waters and I felt such comfort. For these words of David came to mind.

Psalm 23:1-6
  • 1 The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want.
  • 2  He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
  • 3  He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
  • 4  Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
  • 5  Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
  • 6  Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.


Thanks for a great post,

Love,
Darren
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2007, 05:52:11 PM »

This is truly a most encouraging post excerpt showing us once again that God is in control of EVERYTHING.

WHY oh WHY do we forget..(rhetorical question)...it is part of the process!........AND praise and great thanks to God that HE reminds us!....

Oh those waves!........that come to strenghen us towards insight of HIS Power and Authority over EVERYTHING. Why oh why do we forget? ......

.......the process that pains us will one day loose its power over us...".Oh death where is thy sting"....will one day be the song we will sing....and we will forget no more!

Peace to you Kat

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2007, 05:57:31 PM by Arcturus »
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Kat

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2007, 06:25:54 PM »

Hi Darren,

I was looking at your scripture reference, and verse 6 caught my attention. 
I really like what it says.

Psa 23:6  Surely goodness ( good, pleasant, agreeable, a good thing, benefit, welfare) and mercy (goodness, kindness, faithfulness) shall follow me all the days of my life; and I shall dwell in the house of Jehovah forever (length-days, lifetime, temporal references).

Hi Arcturus,

We just have to keep our eyes on Him  :)

Micah 7:7  But as for me, I will look to the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation; my God will hear me.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2007, 06:43:04 PM »

Hi Kat

You know how I love the Absolute v/s Relative tecnique given to us from Ray ref home page.....

3.Dr. James Kennedy A Sermon Denying God’s Responsibility to Save Africans

Taking the scripture you quote : Micah 7:7 But as for me, I will look to the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation; my God will hear me.

...I see this as a consequence of His Grace and not a result of our effort. So "just" keeping our eyes on Him is not always possible. What were you looking at during 9/11......?

We ALL need HIM for everything at all times and we can rely on ourselves for nothing all the time.

What is so wonderful though, is that when we get side tracked HE can work through our brothers and sisters to keep us on track!.....For me, the post you posted is a track regulator! :D ....a keeping your eye on HIM encourager and powerful reminder!  8)

Thank you.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

 
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YellowStone

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2007, 07:03:49 PM »

Arcturus wrote:

Taking the scripture you quote : Micah 7:7 But as for me, I will look to the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation; my God will hear me.

...I see this as a consequence of His Grace and not a result of our effort. So "just" keeping our eyes on Him is not always possible. What were you looking at during 9/11......?
We ALL need HIM for everything at all times and we can rely on ourselves for nothing all the time.

What is so wonderful though, is that when we get side tracked HE can work through our brothers and sisters to keep us on track!.....For me, the post you posted is a track regulator!  ....a keeping your eye on HIM encourager and powerful reminder!
 


Arcturus, I do not mean to pick on you, but I do not agree with your following statement:

So "just" keeping our eyes on Him is not always possible. What were you looking at during 9/11......?

I do not think that Micah was speaking physically when he spoke of "eyes" in this instance. Rather, I feel it was spiritually and I for one and I would imagine many others here had there spiritual eyes focused on God that very day. Not saying, in the sense that God was responsible but that his will is being done and perhaps a little selfishly that our families and loved ones would be kept safe in the arms of our God.

So in closing, these I feel are the very times that we ought always keep our "eyes" on God.

Just my thoughts; comments are always welcome.

Love to you,
Darren
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Kat

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2007, 07:45:47 PM »


Hi Arcturus and Darren,

Well it's interesting the different perspectives we have.

Yes I see your point Arcturus,
we do tend to let things happening around us, distract us at times.

Then again, I too see the spiritual eyes you are talking about Darren. 
I hope my spiritual eyes are always focused (are tuned in) on Christ, even when I am looking at what's going on in this world.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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DWIGHT

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2007, 02:28:06 AM »

Hi Kat,

This topic couldn't have come at a better time than today.  I was so impressed when Ray pointed out that it was Jesus who compelled them to go knowing what they were facing.  And then waiting until it seemed like there was no hope for the diciples but to perish.  God gets us to the point where we are desperate and with no way out....and then when it seems all is lost, we call on Him to save us and He does...every time.  He knows the end from the beginning and works all things after the council of His own will.  How sweet our Lord Jesus is...not letting us bare more than we are able, but will always making a way for us to escape.  The diciples needed those waves...we need those waves...we need Him to compel us on to those ships...we need Him to save us....we need Him to get in our ship and rebuke the wind and the sea...we need His calming.  Praise you Lord Jesus!

Dwight
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2007, 04:12:13 AM »

Hello Darren

Not agreeing with me is not picking on me…..it is what it is….simply not agreeing.  That ‘s okay. You see what you see, I see what I see as Kat said….different perspectives.  :D

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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rrammfcitktturjsp

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2007, 04:14:38 AM »

Kat,

  Thanks so much for posting this post.  It seems as if life is getting harder and harder.  Things are happening that I do not know the reason why.  I am not finding pleasure in some of my old activities.  I have just logged onto the forum and saw this post.  It has blessed my life.  I wish to copy it and post it to where I can read everyday offline so that I may be encouraged through these tough times.  Today has been a roller coaster, good, bad, great, horrible, and everything in between.

  God bless you Kat.

  Sincerely,




  Anne C. McGuire
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2007, 04:58:30 AM »

Hello Dwight

I see your post jam packed with wonderful and uplifting scriptures!

“He knows the end from the beginning…”Isa 46 : 10  Declaring the end and the result from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure and purpose.

“….and works all things after the council of His own will.” Phil 2 : 13 Not in your own strength for it is God Who is all the while effectually at work in you, energizing and creating in you the power and desire, both to will and to work for His good pleasure and satisfaction and delight. 14. Do all things without grumbling and faultfinding and complaining against God and questioning and doubting among yourselves…

“….not letting us bare more than we are able”  1 Cor 10 : 13 For no temptation, no trail regarded as enticing to sin, no matter how it comes or where it leads, has overtaken you and laid hold on you that is not common to man, that is, no temptation or trial has cone to you that is beyond human resistance and that is not adjusted and adapted and belonging to human experience and such as man can bear.

“….but will always making a way for us to escape. “ 1 Cor 10 : 13 But God is faithful to His Word and to His compassionate nature, and HE can be trusted not to let you be tempted and tried and assayed beyond your ability and strength or resistance and power to endure,….(We have a beyond our ability  strength, resistance and power. God doesn’t have anything beyond HIS ability, strength, resistance or power! 2 Cor 9 : 8 And God is able to make all grace come to you in abundance,  that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need be self-sufficient, possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation.   I see Ray’s e-mail responses and teachings in this league!)  8)

“…. but will always making a way for us to escape.” 1 Cor 10 : 13 …but with the temptation HE will always also provide the way out, the means of escape to a landing place that you may be capable and strong and powerful to bear up under it patiently.   Rev 3 : 8…I know your record of works and what you are doing. See! I have set before you a door wide open which no one is able to shut………….

I believe Ray too and Bible truths has stepped over the threshold of this door that no one can shut!……….and I join you in gratitude and deep thanks and reverential dependence on God for His Son who shares His strength and through love HIS inheritance with God’s children.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)


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Redbird

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2007, 05:27:25 AM »

To add to this;

Mathew 14; 28-32  And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.  And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.  But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried saying, Lord, save me.  And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?  And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.

I admire Peter's courage to even try to walk on water, to be with Jesus.  At least he took those first steps, and even though he began to fall, Jesus did not let him sink.  Oh, our beautiful saviour indeed.

Love to all,  Lisa
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2007, 05:46:56 AM »

Hello Anne

I felt what you are saying.......and then this scripture came to mind.

Luke 12 : 32 Fear not little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.


Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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Kat

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2007, 12:18:19 PM »


Hi Dwright,

Quote
God gets us to the point where we are desperate and with no way out....and then when it seems all is lost, we call on Him to save us and He does...every time.

I really like how the scripture Darren provided goes with this.

Psa 23:4  Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

Things that we are going through can be scary, just like the disciples were frightened by the waves.  But God has always been there and knows exactly what is going on with us, and when we need it He will rescue us.  So we should, "Fear no evil."


Hi Anne,  it is a help for us to come to an understanding as to why we are going through so many trails.
When we come to realize it is all of God and He will see us through it, then we can more fully comprehend, "fear no evil."


Hi Lisa,  that is a significant part of this parable.  It was Jesus who compelled them to go into the Lake, it was Jesus who waited to come until it got really bad, and it was Jesus who came walking on the water to save them.  The sea was still raging when Jesus was walking on it, but He did not have any trouble walking over it, as today the sea is still raging.  But when Jesus tell us to come, just like when a mother tells her little one learning to walk to come, we must have faith and not be fearful.

1John 5:4 Because, whatsoever hath been born(begotten) of God, overcometh the world; and, this, is the victory that hath overcome the world—our faith.

And yes Arcturus, Luke 12 : 32 "Fear not little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 12:36:59 PM by Kat »
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rrammfcitktturjsp

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2007, 02:44:54 PM »

Arcturus,

  I liked your Scripture, I would imagine the Savior saying lovingly and tenderly as he reassues me that Scripture.  I sat at the screen and read it for awhile, and am making it into an index card to put on my mirror and front door.  I needed to be reminded of this and this goes into what Kat replied to me,

Kat,

  If I could keep it in my mind that God does have great plans for me, plans to prosoper me and my good at heart, well then the trials would be a piece of cake.   I am in the middle of a paradigm shift right now.  It is going to be very interesting to see where this takes me in my walk with Christ.

  Thanks ladies for all you do and your posts on this forum.  They are a great blessing for me.


  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2007, 03:01:20 PM »

Anne

I am so glad you caught it!  Hang on to it!...... :D...in your heart too!

I believe one day we will not fret or have any anxiety about anything and in every circumstance and in everything, we will by prayer with thanksgiving we will be content in praise of God. Ref Phil 4 : 6

We are told by Jesus John 14 : 27...Do not let your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afriad. Stop allowing yourselves to be agitated and disturbed; and do not permit yourselves to be fearful and intimidated and cowardly and unsettled.

I believe that this is what we will be one day because this command will be fulfilled in us through Christ who is for us not against us.  8)


Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 03:15:52 PM by Arcturus »
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YellowStone

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2007, 10:57:10 PM »

Arcturus,

I too believe that we will one day all be free of troubled hearts and fear of any kind.

But your quote from John, really got me thinking :)

John 14 : 27...Do not let your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afriad. Stop allowing yourselves to be agitated and disturbed; and do not permit yourselves to be fearful and intimidated and cowardly and unsettled.

Seeing how it was none other than Jesus himself who commanded these words, has led me to believe that we should not let our hearts be troubled..... Do you think that this instruction has a direct link to Kat's original post? Jesus has given us a way out of such fear and anxiety and just like the disciples on the boat in rough waters, it has to do with Faith. :)

1John 5:4 Because, whatsoever hath been born(begotten) of God, overcometh the world; and, this, is the victory that hath overcome the world—our faith.

Now here is the question; John writes that it is "our faith" that has led us to overcome the world, or have we?

Mat 14:31  And immediately Jesus stretched forth [his] hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Certainly this a major test of face that Peter faced; his faith wavered and he fell. Yet how similiar is this to the trials and tribulations we all face daily. Our faith is too tested and I can almost hear Christ speak to me directly when I let anything bother me to the point of worry or fear. "Oh you of little faith, why do you doubt?"

I might be wrong here and if so, I glady seek correction, but it seems to me that CHrists command of: "Do not let your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afriad. Stop allowing yourselves to be agitated and disturbed; and do not permit yourselves to be fearful and intimidated and cowardly and unsettled." is something we should keep very close to our heart and soul, always.

Just my thoughts, comments welcome :)

Love to you,
Darren
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2007, 03:25:58 AM »

Hello Darren

Our faith IS CHRIST. Our faith is not OUR strength it is CHRISTS STRENGTH. 

We have not overcome the world only Christ has. The promise and our HOPE is that we will overcome.

Only Jesus has paid the price to overcome the world. The price HE paid was to lay down HIS LIFE and receive  HIS death, the cup He drank on HIS cross 2000 years ago. Only Christ had the power to lay down His life and take it up again. It is through Christ alone that any of us are empowered to lay down our lives. Without Christ we can do NOTHING.

Gal 2 : 20 I have been crucified with Christ in Him I have shared SHARED HIS....HIS crucifixion; it is not longer I who live, but Christ the Messiah lives in me, and the life I now live in the body I live by faith OF....OF, by adherence OF and reliance OF and complete trust OF the Son of God Who loved ME and gave HIMSELF up for ME.

Rom 4 : 16 Therefore inheriting the promise is the outcome of faith and depends entirely on faith, in order that it might be GIVEN as an act of GRACE, UNMERITED FAVOR to make it stable and VALID and GUARANTEED to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all.

From Moses to Christ is law and from Christ to now is Grace.....by Grace through faith OF Christ we are saved. Our work is to believe.

John 6 : 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whome He has sent.

You ask : Do you think that this instruction has a direct link to Kat's original post?

I don't see Kat as an enemy in the house of God. She is a builder. ... and Ray's got the roof! The part assigned to me might just be the a small section in the anterior of the building where the floor needs levelling or maybe I am putting in a window I do not know. What do you think?

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

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YellowStone

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2007, 09:05:21 AM »

Hi Arcturus,

We certainly do see things from a different perspective (by the will of God and not our own for sure)

But please know that I never once suggested that "Kat as an enemy in the house of God." (Your words not mine) Nor did the thought ever enter into my mind.

Perhaps this should have been sent to you as a PM, but I need everyone who reads this thread to know that I have zero animosity towards anyone on this forum. Of course Arcturus that includes you! :)

I asked : Do you think that this instruction has a direct link to Kat's original post?

Simply because Peter's faith faltered when he needed it. Can the same not be said for most if not all here. Certainly me.

But Christ did say:

John 14 : 27...Do not let your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afriad. Stop allowing yourselves to be agitated and disturbed; and do not permit yourselves to be fearful and intimidated and cowardly and unsettled.

Sounds like good advice to me. I am sorry you took it another way. :(

Your brother in Christ,
Darren
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 09:05:56 AM by YellowStone »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: He calms the sea
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2007, 10:30:28 AM »

Hello Darren

What I am trying to point out is the diversity of the body of Christ. It is okay if one sees and the other one hears. It is okay to have different perspectives. We measure the fruit of the spirit in order to know one another. Do we build up or break down? Do we share what we see and hence strengthen the overall view or do we think we alone have all the answers. You see, together we are able to bring a bigger picture than what otherwise we would be able to do alone, separate and not willing to share.

If I thought you were inferring that Kat is an enemy I surely would be more direct. Sometimes what we can share is not the same as what another member can share and this is not to be seen as contentious but rather enriching. Our diversity is a strength. You see one thing and I see another. Kat brings her insights and someone else adds theirs. Unless there is seen to be one up man ship or competition for the spotlight at the expense of another persons offerings, then the Mods get involved to stop strife or conflict. If you see what I see then great. If not then that too is okay.

This is not a battle line to draw support and create division it is a place of building up and encouraging one another in spirit and in truth not in motives to beat one another in a contest or appear more worthy or higher up in any virtue of Christ. Now I know you have NOT said and inferred and perhaps not even thought about what I am communicating here. That is just my point. This is what I am saying not to get agreement or to start up one side against another side or sides. We all see things differently. If you see the tail of an elephant and I see its foot can you imagine what a dispute we will be in if we try to get agreement that we are looking at the same animal. Some of our thoughts are going to be very aligned to others who view things from a similar or a more closely aligned perspective and vantage point. Our fellowship is not to have everyone agree that an elephant looks like its tail or its foot, but to share and communicate what we see in a safe, strife free forum. When battle lines are drawn and cause for hurt feelings and offence starts being displayed, then pride is often in the origin of such contentions. Immaturity  and perceived injury where there is non, is also one of the parameters of group discussions that are being steered away from by the Mods to avoid emotional meltdowns.

You are not accused for my saying that I do not see Kat as an enemy. I did not say you said she is either. My point is that although one may bring into focus a truth and another may bring in another point of view, that this is not a fearful encounter unless of course there is one who is trying to obtain approval or a following.  I recall Joe very aptly explaining this concept that we do not see the same things at the same times as one another because no two people can stand on the same spot at the same time. It is good if  I look north and you look south we can get a bigger picture through the simple art of communicating what we see. It is better if what I see adds to what you see and visa versa. If in error we can also rely on others sharing what they see and holding up what anyone has to say against the word of God to see if it is correct and proper or if it is untrue and deceptive. This is the training ground in the Forum in which we all share in the exercise of the spirit of truth and we can encourage one another to become trained in the knowledge of His word as we continue to discover His truths and His ways and His thoughts which are of far more value than what we think or can ever say. It is wonderful when understanding comes out of communication. Agreement and being right is not the aim. Sharing the greater knowledge of God and Christ is our participation and privilage to both give and recieve through this Forum. That for me defines fellowship not in person or personal agreements but in spirit and in truth that gives a glimpse of His Spirit and of His Truth that is for me, an unmerited favor of Grace and Mercy. I hope you understand and if you do not, don't worry, neither fret yourself to be agitated and disturbed; and do not permit yourself to be fearful and intimidated and cowardly and unsettled.

This direction is practised to be perfected and Christ is the perfection of this level of overcoming the world and all it could ever say or do. While we are not of the world we are still in it....


Peace to you
Arcturus  :)
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