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Why are there athiests?
rrammfcitktturjsp:
To All,
I used to be an atheist that was very strong in atheism. I have traveles the gamut of different religious beliefs. The reason I was an atheist, was not becuase of whether I saw the truth or not, I just did not want to be accountable.
If Joe agrees with this link, than I will re-modify my post and include it here.
I found out that I had to have More faith to be an atheist than where I am now.
But remember in all of this brothers and sisters, we shall all be saved. When I was an atheist, I did not feel pressured by those "Turn or Burn" messages. I will say that was the roughest time of my life becuase I had no one to lean on but myself, and I was a very shaky foundation.
Great thread.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
hebrewroots98:
I like to tell Athiests that ...
"GOD HAS SET ETERNITY IN THE HEARTS OF EVERY MAN"...(Proverbs)
Therefore, I know that they are just lying to themselves, and God must convict them and convince them :) :).
Deborah-Leigh:
Susan
This might interest you.
From Lake of Fire Part 15 C
GOD DID NOT PUT ‘ETERNITY’ IN THE HEART OF MANKIND
Next we read in verse 11:
“…He set the world in their heart…”
Which a few translations render even worse as
“…He set eternity in their heart…”
Then we are told that the reason for setting the “world” or “eternity” in their heart is:
“…so that no man can find out the work that God makes…”
There is absolutely no way to understand this Scripture as it is translated in the King James and some other modern English Versions. Let’s see if we can get some clarification on this phrase from a few other translations:
The New Revised Standard Version: “He has made everything suitable for its time…”
The New American Bible: “He has made everything appropriate to its time…”
A New Translation by James Mottatt: “He assigned each to its proper time, but for the mind of man He has appointed mystery…”
Concordant Literal Old Testament: “He has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart…”
Some of you may be asking, “Well, how are these translations any better?” Well, they are better—much better.
A little help from Strong’s Concordance: As we have seen above, the word translated “world” and “eternity” by some translations, is rendered as “mystery” and “obscurity” by others, and it is taken from the Hebrew word olam. Here is what we read in Strong’s:
“#5769, olam, from #5956; prop. concealed.”
So “mystery” or “obscurity” are certainly very close to this definition.
Next notice the last verse of the last chapter in Ecclesiastes:
“For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good or whether it be evil” (Ecc. 12:14).
The word translated “secret” here is the Hebrew word alam. And here is what we read in Strong’s: #5956; a prim. root; to veil from sight, i.e. conceal.”
The first definition of #5760, olam is concealed; and #5760, olam is taken from #5956, alam and its definition is veil or conceal.
I went through this slightly technical explanation to prove to you the real meaning of this verse. The understanding of this verse will greatly assist our understanding of the Sovereignty of God and man’s absence of anything akin to a “free will” which could operate independently from God.
Let’s read the last version of this verse again:
“He [God] has made everything fitting [not ‘beautiful’] in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does.” (Ecc. 3:11).
So God has made everything that there is (even though much of it is evil, ugly, and NOT ‘beautiful,’) fitting, proper, appropriate, and suited for its own season, “but” or “however”—here comes a counter proposal, if you will. So God makes EVERYTHING proper and appropriate for His plan, however…. BUT, “…He has put OBSCURITY in their hearts…” so that, or in order that, they CANNOT know or understand what it is that He is doing to them in this human existence we call “life.” What a spiritual revelation!
We have hundreds of Scriptures that verify the fact that God does do according to His plan and intention, always, and everywhere, but there are few verses as this verse which tells us specifically how He had HID [concealed, obscured] this marvelous operation from the eyes of carnal humanity as this verse does.
But Jesus Christ can set us free from the carnal mind, and give us spiritual discernment, and increase our knowledge, and make us wise so that we can understand. Here then is the revelation of a major mystery:
God uses mankind with his “obscured heart” to do all of His intentions without mankind every consciously knowing that God is working His purpose through them—“so that no man can find out the work that God makes from the beginning to the end.”
THE KING OF ASSYRIA’S OBSCURED HEART
VERSUS THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD
Last time I said that I would show you in the Scriptures an example where God tells us that He uses people to do His will, but that the one being used doesn’t know it, but rather thinks that he himself is doing the choosing and making the decisions and carrying out the intentions of his heart all according to his own presumed free will, whereas God says that it is He, and not the person being used, Who is in total control of the one being used.
Isaiah 10:5-17:
“O Assyrian, the rod of Mine anger, and the staff in their hand is Mine indignation. I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of My wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
Howbeit HE means not so, neither does HIS heart [his ‘obscured’ heart—Ecc. 3:11] think so; but it is in HIS heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few. For he says, Are not MY princes altogether kings…
As my hand has found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria; Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols? Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord has performed His whole work [at the hands of the Assyrians] upon Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria and the glory of his high looks.
For he says, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by the wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man: And my hand has found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathers eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.
Shall the ax [king of Assyria] boast itself against him that hews therewith [God]? Or shall the saw [king of Assyria] magnify itself against Him that saws with it [God] as if the rod [king of Assyria] should shake itself against them that lift it up [God], or as if the staff [king of Assyria] should lift up itself, as if it were no wood [but rather something with free will and the power of self-determinism].
Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle it burning like the burning of a fire. And the light of Israel shall be for fire, and His Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day”
That section of Scripture is pretty much self-explanatory. This is a perfect example where God fills in the whys and wherefores of how He operated and worked with the king of Assyria to punish His people, Israel.
But this is also how God works with all kings and presidents, and heads of corporations, and heads of families, and all humanity. God “…works ALL according to the counsel of His Own will.” But just like the King of Assyria, not so is all humanity thinking in THEIR heart. They don’t believe that God uses them on a daily basis just as He did with the King of Assyria. That’s because:
“He [God] has made everything FITTING in its season; However, He has put OBSCURITY in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does from the beginning to the end.” (Ecc. 3:11).
What an amazing Scripture. Imagine a preacher ever giving a sermon on a Scripture as “OBSCURE” as this?
Back in Gen. 50:20, we have another excellent example of how God put “obscurity” into the hearts of Joseph’s brothers. They, like the Assyrian King, had one plan in their hearts, while God was using them for His plan—a totally different plan:
“And Joseph said unto them [his brothers], Fear not: for am I in the place of God? But as for you, you thought evil against me, but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.”
Did Joseph understand in his “obscured” heart that it was GOD sending him to Egypt to do His will? No. Did the King of Assyria understand in his “obscured” heart that it was God sending him to Jerusalem to do His will? No. Does Christendom understand in their “obscured” hearts that it is God sending them to deceive the world and to blaspheme His name through their evil doctrines? No.
“The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers [rillets—small brooks] of water: He turns [directs] it whithersoever he will [desires]” (Prov. 21:1).
It is not in a king to direct his ways, neither is it in ALL MANKIND to direct his steps:
“O Lord, I know that the way of man [Heb: ‘Adam, a human, mankind] is NOT in himself [or in his presumed free will] it is not IN man [‘not in MANKIND’] that walks to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23).
If mankind cannot direct his own steps: Who then does direct his “steps?”
“Man’s goings [Heb: ‘STEPS’] are OF THE LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?” (Prov. 20:24).
All is OF God.
This true perspective really helped my understanding after I heard the Babylonian Priest teach heresy on this topic. It is so wonderful to be set free and a blessing to have "come out" don't you think! :D
Maybe others here can enjoy this teaching from Ray that you touched on Sue!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
iris:
Yes, I can see that too.
Some don't believe in the bible at all because of issues such as hellfire. It is all Gods plan.
Which he will take care of in the judgement and everyone will be saved.
Thanks Arcturus for sharing that, it was helpful.
Iris
Deborah-Leigh:
Iris
It makes me happy when anyone receives and digests and assimilates or swallows without any problem and no contest, the wonderful food of truth that Ray is sharing. I do not know how anyone can actually reject what Ray writes!...I don't want to know either! :D
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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